Japanese Model seasonal forecasts

May 21st, 2012 at 7:06 pm by under Bill's Blog, Weather

     Click on the graphics to enlarge.  This is the latest Japanese model seasonal forecast for summer (left) and next winter (right).  The red indicates areas that are expected to be warmer than average and the blue indicates areas that are expected to be colder than average.  The Japanese model was one of the few model forecasts that predicted a milder winter for last winter.  It’s got us a little warmer than average for the summer (I’m on board with the summer being a little bit warmer than average) and it’s forecasting a lot of cold air over North America next winter.   The preliminary CFS model is also showing temperatures on the cool side for Michigan next winter as well.  It’s too early to commit, but we’ve had some cold winters in the eastern U.S. when La Nina fades into a weak El Nino.  The winters of the late 70s were cold and snowy here and they followed springs with extended periods of well above-normal temperatures.     ALSO:  Fairbanks, Alaska reached 70 degrees on Monday (warmer than G.R. and most of Lower Michigan on Monday).  This was only one day behind average.  Fairbanks averages 55 days that hit 70 each year and 11 days that get to 80 degrees.  The last time Fairbanks was 70 was on Sept. 13th.   Barrow, Alaska climbed to 32 on May 17th ending a stretch of 220 consecutive days with the temperature below freezing.  Barrow still has 9″ of snow on the ground and Kotzebue has 19″ remaining.  Barrow had at least a trace of snowfall on 14 of the first 20 days of May.   Here’s video of a landslide in Switzerland.

214 Responses to “Japanese Model seasonal forecasts”

  1. michael g (SE GR) says:


  2. Scott (west olive) says:

    bring on the snow!

    1. fixxxer says:

      See ya in 6 months “winter nut”.

  3. ~Sherry~(Comstock Park) says:

    Sounds good to me.

  4. Andy says:

    I like it!!

  5. Scott (west olive) says:

    Gives Fixx 6 months to buy a snuggli blanket. lol I should be all set if I buy a bag of salt a week. :)

  6. INDY says:

    Bill Sunday sunny and Hot love it!! We have a great race week’nd coming up out at thee YARDofBRICKS.. Better get the sprites on ice now!! INDYY…

    1. Bill Steffen says:

      FYI: The race will be on WOTV4. It’s been broadcast on ABC-TV since 1965, but in the early days it was film/tape delayed. It was on radio starting in 1939 sponsored by Perfect Circle Piston Rings. ABC’s contract with INDY goes to 2018.

  7. Bob P. St.JOHNS :o) says:

    Like…. :o )

  8. Dan says:

    Fixxxer will leave the state after reading those models for next winter! Woo Hoo! Oh, I mean sorry Fixxxer that the weather cannot be perfect! Bill is trying his best to arrange the optimal weather conditions!

    1. fixxxer says:

      Yeah because they would be soo accurate this far out. Anyways i just want a hot summer. Today sucked though. ;)

      1. DF (SE Mich) says:

        How accurate?

  9. Randy (SW Walker) says:

    Fix start complaining now for then to turn your heat on……maybe they will do it by December

  10. Jeff says:

    Since I work for a air conditioning and heating company, I very much like the forecast! Let the weather extremes really put the AC’s and Furnaces through their paces ;)

    What can I say? The more miserable customers are, the better we like it – lol

  11. Mike Geukes says:

    We need lots of snow, we need snow from September to May
    200 inches or more would be nice, and have snow on the ground
    for 4 months in a row. There is snow on the ground in Canada
    and Alaska.

    1. Brian(Grandville) says:

      Snow sounds really good on days like yesterday.

  12. Barry in Zeeland says:

    Really? We’re still talking snow in the middle of May a day after it was 90 degrees? I swear 3/4 of the posts on here are somehow related to snow even though 3/4 of the year we do not even have snow. I suppose someone is hovering right now over the winter warning button just itching to press it.

  13. SlimJim NW GR (1) says:

    If the upcoming winter turns out to be as cold as forecasted to be then we will all have to start saving money for our heat bill. It should be noted that the new average temps are now “warmer” then they were so that getting colder then average will be somewhat easier. As for this summer I feel we could see a good bit of ups and downs for a good part of the summer. (Which is typical for Michigan) unless we can get under that ridge then it could be hot and dry or if the ridge stays to our SW and the we could be somewhat cooler.

  14. Snowy Whit says:

    Not sure why you don’t discuss climate change as the possibly for the unusual weather. Then I remember this is religious area and they believe nature is controlled by a GOD! lol

    1. Bill Steffen says:

      Do you mean unusual weather like this in 1900: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1900_Galveston_hurricane (up to 12,000 killed!) Note that tropical cyclone activity is at a historic LOW level for a 2-year period: http://policlimate.com/tropical/global_running_ace.png (note the decrease since the 1990s, and especially since 2005). The most famous of hurricane forecasters/climatologists, Dr. Bill Gray doesn’t believe in catastrophic global warming from CO2, and this is from Dr. Chris Landsea and is up on the NOAA hurricane website: “Though there is evidence both for and against the existence of a detectable anthropogenic signal in the tropical cyclone climate record to date, no firm conclusion can be made on this point. No individual tropical cyclone can be directly attributed to climate change. The recent increase in societal impact from tropical cyclones has largely been caused by rising concentrations of population and infrastructure in coastal regions.”

      Do you mean unusual weather like this in 1925: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f9/Tri-State_Tornado.JPG/300px-Tri-State_Tornado.JPG A single tornado in 1925 killed more people than ALL the tornadoes in the entire world in 2011 and so far in 2012 COMBINED! Strong to violent tornadoes actually DECREASED since the 1970s: http://blogs.woodtv.com/files/2012/04/ef3-to-ef5-tornadoes.png Greg Carbin, the warning coordination meteorologist at NOAA’s Storm Prediction Center in Norman, Oklahoma, said ““There really is no scientific consensus or connection [between global warming and tornadic activity]”

      How about drought. Surely the droughts today: http://www.droughtmonitor.unl.edu/ are worst than the droughts of the Dust Bowl. Look at 1934: http://geochange.er.usgs.gov/sw/changes/natural/pdsi/pdsi1934.gif (it was much worse in the 1930s).

      How about heat? Did you know that Des Moines, IA hasn’t set a record high temperature in July since 1955. In Grand Rapids, the four coolest Julys have all occurred since 1992 (in the last 20 years). The 10 warmest Julys in G.R. all occurred before 1956. Twenty-four states still list their state all-time hottest temperature from the 1930s: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._state_temperature_extremes And you know we have thousands more weather stations that could record an all-time record temperature today than in the 1930s. The worst cold wave in the mainland U.S. was in 1899. Downtown Grand Rapids had five consecutive mornings with temperatures below -20F.

      What about those Polar icecaps melting away to nothing. Let’s check the Arctic icecap: http://arctic-roos.org/observations/satellite-data/sea-ice/observation_images/ssmi1_ice_area.png Look at that, (it’s the red line on the graph). The icecap is right at average, and it’s grown significantly in the past year (the black line). How about the Antarctic icecap: http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/seaice.anomaly.antarctic.png The S. Polar icecap has been GROWING steadily for the past 25 years!

      There is no such thing as static climate. We’ve had both palm trees and glaciers right here in West Michigan. We’ve always had “unusual weather”, long before people drove SUVs. The recent (relatively small in Earth history) change in global temperature is a better fit to ocean cycles (warm PDO and warm AMO) than to carbon dioxide (which has been over 10 times current levels in past Earth history). For anyone really into science, here’s a peer-reviewed paper on ocean temperature just out this week: http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2012/2012GL051106.shtml It concludes that since 1955 we’ve had “a volume mean warming of 0.09°C.” That’s less than 1/10th of one degree (much less than earlier IPCC forecasts). Global temperatures have actually held pretty steady since 2002. From Dr. Judith Curry of the BEST group at Berkeley: Prof Curry said, the project’s research data show there has been no increase in world temperatures since the end of the Nineties – a fact confirmed by a new analysis that The Mail on Sunday has obtained. ‘There is no scientific basis for saying that warming hasn’t stopped,’ she said. ‘To say that there is detracts from the credibility of the data, which is very unfortunate.’

      As to your making fun of the religion of others, I suggest you might read this: http://articles.cnn.com/2007-04-03/us/collins.commentary_1_god-dna-revelation?_s=PM:US. In Genesis 2:15 we read “The Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it.” God told Adam to work the garden. His job was to be a steward of the garden – to keep it, renew it, maintain it. Jews, Christians and others who believe hold Genesis in high regard are not inclined to environmental degradation. I am an Eagle Scout. I’ve worked on many conservation programs since I was in grade school, from erosion prevention in northern Wisconsin to planting dune grass here in West Michigan. People of faith perform countless unheralded acts of good will and projects that benefit the environment. I just spent a couple days looking at tornado damage in Indiana and Kentucky and I heard many people praise the efforts of church groups that came to help…the Amish, the Mormons, Presbyterians were three groups that were quickly mentioned as providing great help after the twisters. Churches donated their gyms and parking lots, held fundraisers, found housing for victims, fed the volunteers. It’s not on the Nightly News, so it often goes unnoticed accept by those who benefit from their kindness.

      1. Great Response!! People who denigrate the beliefs of others are showing ignorance. It is not surprising tho…the Scriptures state that to unbelievers the Word is nonsense…that is because it is a book that is “Spirit and Life” and to understand a spiritual book, your spirit needs to be made alive in Christ. Thank you for all the great references to those that are scientists…have no grant money to protect…and can speak truth regarding the global change in temperature. Not only are you a wonderful meteorologist, but a very wise man.

        1. Irish coffee says:

          AMEN!…Funny/ironic,how deniers like Bill Maher,Cristopher Hitchins (in his past life) etc., love to MOCK Christianity/Jesus while professing & CLINGING to a BELIEF in NO spiritual afterlife! Based on what exactly? Science? NOPE!, can’t be that..no credible evidence/PROOF exists to explain away/quantify lack of a spiritual afterlife;or absence thereof.Hence, it is EXACTLY by the same principle and standard of proof that we Christians are inspired to belief in eternal life that those w/ a DIS-belief adhere to–FAITH! HEAVY IRON-y at that;)

        2. Brad says:

          Now there’s a vote for a pretty extreme form of subjectivism. The next time somebody tells me there’s a purple dragon on the dining room table that I cannot see, I guess I will have to concede that we are both equally likely to be correct.

        3. Brad says:

          Pat, please identify the “grant money” variable in the current climate models. Thank you!

        4. Bill Steffen says:

          LOL – and it takes no faith at all to believe that hydrogen gas turned into the incredibly complex natural world we see today by random chance (these last 2 words are important)? I’m sure you can prove that in a few short paragraphs, brad? And that’s every delicious little detail and mutation! Collins couldn’t. It’s far easier to choose a spiritual philosophy that’s comfortable with one’s sins.

        5. Brad says:

          Bill, science does not require faith. It requires hypotheses to be tested in any way possible, and identifies the most likely scenarios based on empirical evidence. There is nothing anybody needs to “cling to”- scientists are comfortable to work in a realm where certainty is rare. It is understandable why people who “need answers” and an absolute bedrock choose dogma and belief over inquiry. Science and experimentation are constantly engaging, adjusting, and growing. Dogma is dead, stagnant, unchanging, unlike reality.

        6. Irish coffee says:

          “empirical evidence” ding ding ding!!! winner winner!!!
          There is absolutely “0″(as in NONE) EMPIRICAL and quantifiably valid data that humans were begotten from a non-human/terrestrial source primate or otherwise….point made and taken!

        7. Brad says:

          Irish, it’s time for you to take a science course.

        8. Irish coffee says:

          TAKE a science course?I have/would again but most are too DOGMATIC in their approach;)(like shoving Darwin’s swiss cheese down people’s throats w/o any validation)You’ve regurgitated old,tired principles based on THEORIES…give us some fresh new facts wise one- or is it easier to just character assasinate Mr Strawman

        9. Brad says:

          LOL…science is dogmatic but Christianity is not? Is there a term for intellectual dyslexia?

          Read up on scientific theory so you understand the definition of “theory” in that context. You seem to confuse colloquial definitions of terms such as “empirical” and “theory” for scientific definitions of the same terms.

          If you are implying “Darwinism” has holes (btw, evolutionary biology has moved far beyond Darwin), take some courses and work to address those wholes and come up with better explanations that fit our observations and measurements. It’s a joke to complain about “swiss cheese” theories and then launch into Christian apologism.

        10. Bill Steffen says:

          YES, SCIENCE REQUIRES FAITH – either that or you’ve relegated science to a little bitty box! Scientists would never disagree if that were the case. You’d still believe in a flat Earth if accepted theory could not be challenged! You have faith that the PIOMAS computer actually has an accurate reading for polar ice? More later…I actually have to work to earn my $$.

        11. Brad says:

          There’s a big difference between faith in supernatural phenomena that cannot be studied or measured (or even known) and skeptical acceptance of the best-verified scientific hypotheses and theory. You guys get so emotional about your dogma!

        12. Bill Steffen says:

          Sure belief in a supernatural being can be studied. Collins did that. By looking at physical law, the fossil record, probability (of random mutations making a human eye, perhaps), we can make a more reasoned decision. When I eat at a new restaurant, I don’t know what I’m going to get from the cook, but by looking at a menu – perhaps getting feedback from others, I can make a more reasoned decision about dinner.

        13. Irish coffee says:

          Game on!! In this corner:Brad, who uses opinions and unproven theories wrt origin of life that lacks logic,reason and rational explanations & instead claims complex & inteeligent life is just a product of natural, random,& chaotic chance.
          On the other side: Jesus Christ, who proclaimed a spiritual, purpose-driven meaning to life via divine creation.
          Jesus changed water into wine.
          Brad changes lightbulbs …and swiss cheese into whine.
          Jesus healed the sick,comforted the afflicted,walked on water,& brought dead back to life(in addition to his own resurrection)as well as promises eternal life to all who seek him.
          Brad, otoh, probably can’t heel a woman’s shoe…and can only walk on water if there is a bridge.He claims the dead are dead and gone forever.
          Jesus went from here to eternity(and back).
          Brad still working on getting from here to THERE.
          In the words of Ray Parker Jr. : “WHO YA GONNA
          CALL?” ;)

        14. Brad says:

          Jesus changed water into wine and walked on water? Please point to the evidence. It’s laughable to criticize the scientific method and then make outlandish statements such as these.

        15. Bill Steffen says:

          HA! Hydrogen gas turned into “brad” by random chance? Prove by scientific method very single step, every mutation and yes, random chance is applicable!

      2. I agree – thanks for posting this – I always look back at history when discussing global warming with others. I am just not seeing anything new under the sun!

        1. Brad says:

          Sandy, no offense, but you’re not a climatologist. Folkspeak like “I am just not seeing anything new under the sun” has no place in a scientific discussion.

        2. Bill Steffen says:

          Brad – you aren’t a climatologist either. History is a good place to start, to look at past analog years to see when we had similar conditions – ocean patterns (PDO, AMO, La Nina, El Nino), solar variance, volcanoes, etc. Historical climate predictions can sometimes be verified…or not verified:



        3. Brad says:

          I am not a climatologist. I admit that, and I know enough not to scoff at people with advanced degrees in chemistry, physics, and atmospheric science when it comes to climate models. I am humbled by that fact that the more one learns, the more one learns he or she does not know. I do not celebrate ignorance or accept that emoting and “aw, shucks” thinking is relevant to scientific discussion.

        4. Bill Steffen says:

          Even if you don’t, unfortunately others do scoff at those with advanced degrees in chemistry, physics, meteorology and climatology who are skeptical of catastrophic global warming from CO2. My father-in-law was a head research chemist. He was asked by NASA to work on coatings for the Apollo Mission. He told me he couldn’t find a single atheist in the research lab at NASA.

        5. Paul says:

          Brad is a drunk and heretic!!! Jackazz

        6. Brad says:

          And Paul is a nippy dog, nipping at my heels. You toss the term “heretic” around like a Taliban cleric. Yikes.

        7. Paul says:

          Just telling the truth heretic, lol.

      3. Snowy Whit says:

        Top climate scientist in the world. Head of NASA GODDARD program. DR JAMES HANSEN ” I have included link to ted” Remember everyone WEATHERMAN are not CLIMATE SCIENTIST. And ours sure doesn’t understand PHYSICS. Since he doesn’t believe in Climate Change and he does believe in imaginary SKY GODS. You should be spreading awareness instead of DENYING facts. How shameful http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fWInyaMWBY8

      4. Snowy Whit says:

        Here is NASA once again with CONCRETE EVIDENCE FOR HUMAN CLIMATE CHANGE. Your reasons are nothing more then CONFORMATION BIASES, that conform to your BIAS BELIEF that climate change is big hoax. Who should I believe the REAL climate scientist including NASA. Or YOU? THINK FOR YOURSELF PEOPLE LOOK AT THE EVIDENCE. INSTEAD OF JUST CHERRY PICKING STATS TO CONFORM TO YOUR PREJUDGED BELIEF> http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

      5. Snowy Whit says:

        How about the FACT that 90 percent of the NATIONAL ACADEMY OF SCIENTIST in America are ATHEIST. And about the fact you have NO EVIDENCE to back up your CLAIMS of some kind of god. And since you have NO EVIDENCE I see NO REASON to believe you or anyone who makes that claim. DO YOU BELIEVE IN THE EASTER BUNNY? WHY NOT? BECAUSE THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THEREFORE THERE IS NO REASON TO BELIEVE IN ONE. ITS CALLED LOGIC AND COMMON SENSE! Your god argument just displays your ignorance to the scientific method.

      6. Snowy Whit says:

        HEZBOLLAH AND HAM-MAS do tons of charity work as well. Are we going to start crowing them too bill?

        1. Bill Steffen says:

          Yeah, and Hitler was nice to his dog. Big deal. Hezbollah and Hamas have a very verifiable record of terrorist activities. The Salvation Army does not.

      7. Snowy Whit says:

        How about the FACT that 97 percent of all AMERICAN climate scientist agree, humans are causing climate change. How about the FACT that 90-97 percent off all worldwide climate scientist all agree, on HUMAN caused climate change. How about the FACT NASA believes human caused climate change is FACT. Its hard to argue against REASON and LOGIC! My point was you are either ignorant of to the facts of climate change. Or you are purposely avoiding the topic, since the Christians believe nature is controlled by SKY GOD. //climate.nasa.gov/




        JUST ENTER HTTP in front of links I provided for proof.

        1. Snowy Whit says:

          Here is solid scientific evidence from NASA confirming my points Bill. Please look at the evidence and think for yourself. And you will come to the logical conclusion you are wrong. And should feel ashamed for never mentioning this topic. You have service to the public and you are letting your future generations down, by misleading the public on this. People will figure out the truth because they are clever and curious. And will wonder why there weatherman never cared to mention, it. Maybe all you care about is

          Just enter Http: into browser. ( I did this because the blog is set up so you can not upload links to back up your arguments. Just another way to CENSOR the TRUTH.

        2. Bill Steffen says:

          I’ve bumped several of Snowy Whit’s comments. I won’t have him pasting the same comment on every blog thread, including threads that have nothing to do with climate issues and there is not a single comment related to that issue. It disrespects others. We’re not censoring anything. Your comment is here…it’s just not plastered over the blog 50 times. We do expect those who comment to respect others on the blog. If you look around the blog, others have posted many links. It would be helpful if you could share any relevant information about your expertise or experience with climate issues.

          Now, you linked to a website that said that 97% of scientists believe in man-made climate change. I think this may be the study you linked to:

          “In an October 2011 paper published in the International Journal of Public Opinion Research, researchers from George Mason University analyzed the results of a survey of 489 scientists working in academia, government, and industry. The scientists polled were members of the American Geophysical Union or the American Meteorological Society and listed in the 23rd edition of American Men and Women of Science, a biographical reference work on leading American scientists. Of those surveyed, 97% agreed that that global temperatures have risen over the past century. Moreover, 84% agreed that “human-induced warming” is now occurring.”

          Now…this is cleverly worded to get a certain conclusion. I would have answered “Yes” to both of those questions. It has warmed (slightly, maybe one degree)…and humans have cause some warming (urbanization, land use and to a small extent through greenhouse gases, of which CO2 is only one of them). But I (and I’m sure many of the 97% that responded in the positive) would be skeptical that CO2 has caused and will cause catastrophic scenarios like massive sea level rises and the complete melting of the polar icecaps.

          There are more skeptics now than 10 years ago. Remember this: http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/snowfalls-are-now-just-a-thing-of-the-past-724017.html It obviously didn’t happen: http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/service/global/snowcover-nhland/201202.gif The decade of 2001-2010 was the snowiest decade ever in G.R. Alarmists become skeptics: http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/23/11144098-gaia-scientist-james-lovelock-i-was-alarmist-about-climate-change?lite and http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2f4cc62e-5b0d-4b59-8705-fc28f14da388 The percentage of alarmists has been shrinking.

          Global temperatures have leveled off in the past 10 years. This is from Dr. Judith Curry of the BEST group at Berkeley:

          “Prof Curry said, the project’s research data show there has been no increase in world temperatures since the end of the Nineties – a fact confirmed by a new analysis that The Mail on Sunday has obtained.

          ‘There is no scientific basis for saying that warming hasn’t stopped,’ she said. ‘To say that there is detracts from the credibility of the data, which is very unfortunate.’

          Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2055191/Scientists-said-climate-change-sceptics-proved-wrong-accused-hiding-truth-colleague.html#ixzz1vpv7FgpF

          Look at what’s been going on with the South Polar icecap: http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/seaice.anomaly.antarctic.png It’s been steadily increasing since the mid 1980s.

        3. big Daddy BC says:

          Holy Cow! You expect those who post to be respectful of others on the blog??!!! Carrion feeders like Paul, Randy, and Mike M regularly call people vile names, link to pornographic pics, and make outright threats. You yourself have called people everything from NAZIs to Godless heathens. If you allow your right-wing bully squad to attack every environmentalist that posts here, you should, at least, allow people to fight back.
          You’re despicable, weatherman.

        4. Bill Steffen says:

          HA – all you’ve got is insults. I’m not going to have “Whit” pasting the same comment on every thread over and over again, interrupting the comment flow. It’s rude. I haven’t called anyone a NAZI. I corrected you and pointed out that Hitler’s famous book, “Mein Kampf” shows his devotion to socialism. You can look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mein_Kampf As you can see, the second of the two volumes was called, “The National Socialist Movement”. Hitler didn’t believe in freedom. And I disagree with your term “environmentalist”. I think I’m more of an “environmentalist” than you are. I’ve participated in many conservation projects. Countries that grow wealth take better care of the environment. What’s the air and water like in Communist China?

        5. big Daddy BC says:

          You think you’re more of an environmentalist than someone you don’t know anything about? That’s interesting if arrogant.
          The challenge our environment faces has little to do with park cleanups and tree planting with the boy scouts, although it’s a nice start. The biggest challenge our environment faces is a population explosion and economic shift. Policies drafted by a right wing whose bought and paid for by organizations like ALEC and people like the Koch brothers are done so to rid corporations the expense of environmental responsibility. People like you who cling desperately to ideologies based on misconceptions and myth are part of the problem and not solution. You’re about as much of an environmentalist as Bush. Got your pro-fracking bumpersticker yet?

        6. Bill Steffen says:

          If you weren’t so embarrassed about yourself (maybe you have some legal issues in the closet…outstanding warrants…could be, you haven’t denied it)…maybe you would have some credibility if you could offer some climate expertise. We don’t know if you even have a GED. I’ll stack my conservation time against yours.

          Population in the U.S. is steady, even shrinking a bit if you take out immigration. Population is shrinking more rapidly over most of Europe, Russia and Japan. Population is increasing rapidly among many Muslim families. The average Palestinian family has 6.3 children. What do you propose we do about that?

          Economic? Yeah, the U.S. spent 1.7 TRILLION more dollars than it took in. We need to stop funding boondoggles like Solyndra: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-09-18/news/ct-met-kass-0918-20110918_1_solyndra-loan-guarantee-obama-fundraisers-obama-white-house George Soros pumps more money into politics than the Koch Brothers, ALEC and Haliburton combined! http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/05/george-soros-other-rich-guys-to-give-obama-100m.html

          You can ride your tricycle if you like. We’re taking energy forward: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/24/us-usa-economy-energy-idUSBRE84N10O20120524 We don’t want your “skyrocketing” energy costs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7txAgXTbig

        7. big Daddy BC says:

          LOL You must have given up your programmer guess, huh? You don’t have a clue. Warrants? What the heck are you even talking about? Why would an arrest warrant preclude someone from posting their name on this insignificant blog? Put the cranberry martini down and join the rest of us in the real world. Wow.

          The world population is growing faster, not because of the rate of replacement (which has gone down), but because there are so darn many people…Seven billion and counting. Even with a lower replacement rate (as in Europe) the population is growing faster than ever. The economic link I’m speaking of has nothing to do with wasteful spending by Obama or Bush. It’s about an entire world that wants to live like an American. The world cannot sustain seven billion people that want to drive Hummers, eat steak, and live in a 2500 square foot house. Your hang-ups about climate change pale in significance to the bigger picture problem of shrinking forests, dirty water, and top soil that’s eroding away. But, as an environmentalist, you’ve probably considered all of that.

        8. Bill Steffen says:

          VERY few people in the world drive Hummers – very few people in the world ate steak for dinner tonight – most people live happily and comfortably in smaller homes. I live in a rather modest 3-bedroom one-floor ranch (and I can hardly take care of that). The planet is doing all right and confiscating more money to waste on pork and companies that live off government grants to cronies, pay the bosses a bunch of money and then go bankrupt isn’t going to help the planet one smidgen. There is nothing wrong with people aspiring to a decent life and many of them won’t have that if you keep forcing skyrocketing energy prices down their throats, and grabbing their money to waste on boondoggles like Solyndra and putting the country 1.7 TRILLION dollars in the whole every year.

        9. big Daddy BC says:

          Hmmm. I’m not sure how to simplify this any further for you. I didn’t say that everyone drives Hummers or eats steak. I know you’re smarter than that. 7 billion people living like Americans do would deplete the world of all of its natural resources in a handful of years. Heck, fresh water, for example, is a limiting resource. We use 1,861 cubic meters per person, the most in the world. In Africa it’s 245. Imagine if every African multiplied their water use by 7.6. You can try to put a republican spin on it, but it’ll only make you look foolish. I agree that it would be great if we could all enjoy the lavish American lifestyle, but in truth, it’s not the Africans that should adjust. It’s us.
          Re-read my post. I refuse to rewrite it using smaller words.

        10. Bill Steffen says:

          Now that’s one of the silliest things you’ve EVER said. We take fresh water, we use it, we clean it (usually better than when we first took it to use) and we return it. We use LOTS of water from the Great Lakes, yet the Great Lakes are at the same water level as they were 100 years ago! Whether we in W. Michigan use more or less water has NOTHING to do with the available water in Africa. There are parts of the world where life (human, animal and plant) is limited by limited rainfall, available lakes and rivers and ground water. In some of those areas (the desert SW of the U.S.) we have overcome that obstacle by importing water. In others (the Sahara) life is limited. It’s ALWAYS been like that. Most of the world has plenty of water and many private groups are working to bring abundant, clean water to those who do not.

          My wife is in a Rotary Club. The Rotary is a private organization (no government control). One of the projects of Rotary is clean water. http://www.rotary.org/en/MediaAndNews/News/Pages/110322_news_waterday.aspx They are doing what bloated, inefficient governments are not doing. What if we took the half a BILLION dollars wasted at Solynda and directed that money to the Rotary for clean water projects?

        11. big Daddy BC says:

          Let me get this straight, you don’t believe that water is a limited resource? You believe that all the water we pump out of the ground goes straight back into our aquifers?? Orlando, Atlanta, Tucson, Las Vegas, Fort Worth, San Fransisco, San Antonio, Phoenix, and Houston are all running out of water. The Colorado river doesn’t even reach the ocean anymore and that’s destroying the delta at the Gulf of Mexico, thus lowering the fish population. But the point wasn’t about your wife and her clean-water efforts. It was about water usage and the inordinate amount we use in the US. Holy smokes you’re slow on the uptake. Clean or dirty, there’s less, Bill.

        12. Bill Steffen says:

          The air we breathe isn’t a limited resource. We can breathe the same regenerated (hurrah for oxygen emitting plants) air over and over again. Same thing with water…we use it, we clean it, we reuse it. The air is cleaner than it was 50 years ago, largely through the Clean Air Act pushed by REPUBLICAN Richard Nixon. Same thing with trees. We cut them down…make furniture, pianos, baseball bats, then grow new trees. Net loss of trees is ZERO. There are a limited number of people that can live in a dry area unless water is transported or desalinated. It’s more expensive, but doable. There’s a lot of people in Phoenix and they all have water. We have a virtually unlimited supply of water here in Michigan. Much of the water we use in G.R. finds its way back to Lake Michigan.

        13. big Daddy BC says:

          Whoa. Your expertise is clearly limited to interpreting computer models and slanting climate information to the right. Any middle school student will tell you that there are fewer trees every year. Satellite photos of the Amazon show fires ablaze 24/7. They’re clearing the rainforest to make room for cattle. I bet they don’t talk about it on FOX NEWS because it’s US companies that are paying these poor people to turn their most precious resource into desert. Air is recycled, true, but the troposphere has changed. It’s chemistry is different. How many fish do you eat out of Lake Michigan per week? Women of child bearing age shouldn’t eat any. Mercury from coal burning power plants have contaminated it. Zebra Mussels concentrate that heavy metal. Round Gobi eat the mussels and are then eaten by native Lake Trout and Salmon. Those toxins move up the food web in concentration making our game fish toxic.
          You’re living a fantasy, Bill. The snake now rules the Garden of Eden and you do his bidding.

        14. Bill Steffen says:

          HA! You’re a hyperbole volcano when your frustrated. The Brazilians are clearing part of the rain forest (not as big a part as you think). The Amazon Basin is still overwhelmingly green: http://eoimages.gsfc.nasa.gov/images/imagerecords/62000/62101/Brazil.A2002251.1425.250m.jpg Middle school students only regurgitate what they’ve been told.

          This is from NPR: “In 2005, there were 400,246,300,201 (more or less) trees on our globe. (That’s over 400 billion, for those of you who have trouble working through the commas.)”

          And this from the Michigan Forest Teachers Guide that a Middle School Teacher might use:

          “About half (53 percent) of Michigan is forested. Most of the forestland lies in the north. Most of the southern counties are largely unforested. Prior to American settlement, about 95 percent of what is now Michigan was forested, or about 35.5 million acres (Chase, et al., 1970). The conversion of forest to other uses, or deforestation, was caused primarily by agricultural activities and secondarily by cities, roads, and similar development. A common myth is that logging, fires, and failure to plant trees is responsible for deforestation. In reality, forest ecosystems can recover from all these activities.

          Michigan’s forest area has been fairly constant since 1953. However, between 1980 and 1993, the total forest area increased by nearly a million acres (or about five percent) to a total of 19,280,000 acres. The timberland acreage (forest open to timber harvest) increased 1.1 million acres (or about seven percent) to a total of 18,615,900 acres (Leatherberry & Spencer, 1993).

        15. big Daddy BC says:

          So the color green is how you’re measuring forest health? …Not very scientific. Grass is green too. As you’ve never taken a bio course, let me explain the difference between a woods and a forests. Succession takes centuries. In Michigan a mature forest is one dominated by Maple and Beech. There may be lots of broken tracks of woods in Michigan, but few Beech Maple forests. In the Amazon basin, when the mature forest is cleared, little will grow there. Very quickly the shallow topsoil washes away. This process is called desertification.
          This isn’t hyperbole, it’s fact. Mercury poisoning, acid rain, a cooling stratosphere (ozone depletion), deforestation, topsoil erosion, toxic biomagnification, invasive species, and global warming are all challenges our growing population must face. The problem is that billionaires are making money while our biome degrades, communities disappear, and cancer rates increase. Your argument that this is the way it must be to keep the economic wheels grinding forward is ignorant. You’re a tool for people like Snyder and DeVos. Wake up and smell the methane.

          Have a look at these,

        16. Bill Steffen says:

          BRAZIL? WOW! Brazil has been run by SOCIALISTS! Lula (President for 8 years plus)…”Before winning the presidency in 2002, Lula had been a strident union organizer known for his bushy beard and Che Guevara t-shirts.[17]” Brazil was the host of the famous Earth Summit in 1992: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Summit (they always go to warm, sunny places – heckuva carbon footprint these conferences have) and the Earth Summit of 2012: http://www.earthsummit2012.org/

          AND BRAZIL IS CUTTING DOWN THE PRISTINE AMAZON RAIN FOREST??!! WOW! There’s a real lesson here! Better not elect a socialist “union organizer”. Horrible things might happen.

          In the meantime, Al Gore is poised to be a carbon billionaire. This from the NY Times: “Mr. Gore’s spokeswoman would not give a figure for his current net worth, but the scale of his wealth is evident in a single investment of $35 million in Capricorn Investment Group, a private equity fund started by his friend Jeffrey Skoll.”

          Many of these new green companies get millions in government subsidies…pay their directors handsomely, then disappear into bankruptcy (Solyndra). In the end, the world isn’t any greener, gets no net energy gain, but the leftist investors get rich off the government subsidies and grants.

    2. Irish coffee says:

      Snowy dimWHIT says: “nature controlled by a GOD, lol” …find mocking God humorous,eh? I suppose you also believe that human beings evolved from NON-humans(nevermind 1′st human live-birth wasn’t witnessed,observed or verified to have been begotten from NON-human life form/species).That’s ok, it makes for a great Darwin talking point/extra credit points in our uber-liberal alternate Universe-ities.But of course it’s all logic(al) and reason(able) to accept an irrational non-scientific explanation on origin of life(human) w/ more holes than swisss cheese + missing links w/in missing links sans scrutiny of experimental reproduction/validation or any other method of scientific discovery for that matter.Given 6+ billion human inhabitants on earth now , it’s just a simple ‘matter’ of time before we ‘evolve’ into a new (improved?) NON-human life form,no? Certainly for Darwinist extremists who believe that humans ‘evolved’ from a NON-human origin it would be completely logical and reasonable & make perfect (non)sense!!

      1. Andy says:

        Funny that Snowy Whit pokes fun at religion, but then goes on to talk about their own religion which is global warming and climate change!!

        1. Brad says:

          How is global warming and climate change a “religion?” Please be cogent.

        2. Bill Steffen says:

          From Merriam:

          4: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

        3. Brad says:

          OK, how about a functional definition? You like cats…does that make cats your “religion?”

        4. Bill Steffen says:

          Hmmm…I wonder how my wife would answer that! BTW, we have two cats now – we have my mother-in-law’s cat after she passed away. The two cats have not become best of friends yet and I’m told it may be 6-8 months. Cat 1 spends a lot of time in basement and cat 2 is mostly on the porch (which is pretty big). They trade time going through the rest of the house. We’re doing everything we can after googling “how to introduce a new cat to a resident cat”. With the second, very athletic cat, we’ve had to “childproof” the house again! Cat 1 (the resident cat) will stalk cat 2 (which is bigger) and will jump at it. Cat 2 can climb up on some cabinets that cat 1 has never been up to yet. I’m also getting advice from my sister, who has 2 dogs and 6 cats (down from 8 cats). That’s my sister who is married to the research scientist at the Oak Ridge Laboratory.

          I think the Merriam definition I cited is a valid one and that most people would agree with that.

        5. Bill Steffen says:

          Let me also make the observation that Snowy Whit’s comment had little to nothing to do with the thread.

        6. Brad says:

          I sneeze just thinking about your cats, thankfully no hives yet.

          I’m not disputing that definition by Webster, but the broad terms used can lead one to call any interest or belief system a “religion,” pretty much diluting the term and making it functionally useless in an argument. I never read anybody stating that the poor were Mother Teresa’s “religion,” or that the people who work at the humane society practice a “religion” about taking in unwanted or neglected animals. Is the Tea Party a religion? The Occupy movement? Meh.

        7. Bill Steffen says:

          The government uses broad terms all the time. The Disabilities Act requires TV stations to make a “reasonable accommodation” to those with special needs. What does “reasonable accommodation” mean? Whatever some judge decides it means. (It means we cut into your program during severe weather with both picture and audio where we used to run a crawl).

          Religion requires an element of faith. However many others (tens of thousands of scientists) believe that it takes an element of faith to believe that hydrogen gas turned into the world we see today by random chance…from the uneducated to scientists like Collins, there are many who think that faith is inconsistent with science and/or observation. Some will also argue that from the uneducated to the grant-seeking to the political zealots that it certainly requires faith to believe without a murmur of skepticism some of the forecasts and scenarios that we hear from climate alarmists (“the icecap will be gone in five years” “snow will become a thing of the past”).

        8. Brad says:

          The most salient point is that a person who thinks scientifically is willing to reject a hypothesis that is not supported by data and observations. Human nature shows us this objectivity is a bit more difficult to come by in practice, but the principle is there. Religious zealots defend all tenets of their faiths regardless of evidence- even when the evidence is overwhelmingly against their position. Evidence does not even matter. Questioning faith is only allowed in the context of growth and the search for firmer foundations. The mindset is different and recalcitrant to change.

        9. Bill Steffen says:

          Ah, but I could say the same about those who steadfastly, without a hint of respect for opposing views or overwhelming evidence (IMHO), cling to the view that hydrogen gas turned into life and matter as we know it by random chance.

          “According to a 1996 survey of United States scientists in the fields of biology, mathematics, and physics/astronomy, 60% of United States scientists in these fields expressed disbelief or agnosticism toward a personal god who answers prayer and personal immortality.[94] This compared with 58% in 1914 and 67% in 1933. (So we’re 2% different from 100 years ago.) And “90 percent of doctors in the United States attend religious services at least occasionally, compared to 81 percent of all adults.” Among the surveyed fields, chemists were the most likely to say they believe in God.[95] (Univ. of Chicago study).

      2. Brad says:

        Irish, you seem to prefer dogma to inquiry. Your hypothetical statement about humans evolving into a “new (improved?) NON-human life form” indicates you do not really understand speciation or the Darwinian model of natural selection. Also, your binary “human” vs. “NON-human” language implies you are not aware that humans are primates.

        1. Irish coffee says:

          I could say the same about you Brad…you seem very dogmatic in YOUR convictions.BTW, humans are NOT primates as they carry 48 DNA ..HUMANS only have 46- where are the other 2? I stand un-corrected; NO primate or any other non-human species for that matter has been seen/observed & or documented to have transformed, procreated,reproduced or begotten a human being, past or present! So what’s your point? We should just “TRUST” that it occured and have FAITH in the Darwinian THEORY wrt to origin of species as it pertains to human creation? Enlighten us also on what valid evidence you put trust in that no spiritual afterlife exists..please include examples employing your self-proclaimed standard of “inquiry”.

        2. Brad says:

          Humans are primates. That is a statement of biological fact, ensconced in the very definition of primate. Here’s a cladogram for you:


        3. Brad says:

          And Irish, again, your comments about non-human primates “transforming” or “giving birth” to humans betrays your lack of understanding of natural selection and speciation. I can suggest some references for you if you want to bone up and learn about biology so you can improve your understanding.

        4. Irish coffee says:

          Ever hear of a Lloyd Pye? “12 reasons humans are NOT primates”….good read,and i recommend it for your inquiring mind ;)

        5. Brad says:

          OHKay. But first I’ll pop in Planet of the Apes as a primer.

        6. Irish coffee says:

          Fair ‘nuf! bon apetit Heston.

        7. Dan says:

          Forget it Irish. Brad is too closed minded and thinks he knows, therefore he will not accept anything else.
          Brad, the trouble with the theory of evolution is where is the half way point? yes, the scientific data to support humans evolved?
          There isn’t one! If you push the “ape/primate theory drivel”, there isn’t a shred of evidence to support that humans are anything close to apes/primates.
          Even you, in all your pseudo intelligence, must realize this.
          Is there absolute law? Is there gravity? How do you prove these things?

        8. Brad says:

          Dan, take a biology course and get back to me. Humans are primates. Ever heard of DNA?

        9. Dan says:

          Brad: I have taken Biology! Where is your evidence that has has been requested by Irish and then later by me?
          You do not want to seem to accept the information of intelligent design. Your arguement for DNA is a weak one!
          I’m challenging you on your knowledge base. Why not answer the questions about scientific data? Where is your evidence? Tell me what scientific evidence you have to support your position? You continually ask more questions by way of deflection. Please provide the information requested!

        10. Dan says:

          Brad: What really do you believe about human beings? No, I don’t want some spit out theories from someone else. What do YOU believe about human beings? Certainly, you have a position about this, right? Let me then ask you this as a follow up. Is what you believe about humans your own thinking or did someone teach you this? Forgive me, but I all I ever hear you do is refute others claims by your own beliefs. Why is this? Then, when others ask for your information, you ask more questions. Why is this? Do you actually have a belief system?

        11. Brad says:

          Dan, I learned long ago who to expend time and energy on on these fora. And you ask me for general information that is widely available online or in printed form, written by people far more qualified than I am. I can gauge from your questions your level of interest or research on the subject- surely you do not need “Brad” from Bill’s blog to learn about evolution. You stated humans are not primates, and that is all I need to know about where this discussion will go (I believe a similar discussion awhile back amounted to nothing too). So, you took a biology course, and now you reject evolutionary theory (the backbone of biological sciences) because it might just run contrary to your religious indoctrination. Your choice, but I am not going to engage in a days-long pseudodebate when we’re using the same terms to mean different things.

        12. Brad says:

          As far as what I “believe” about human beings, what, exactly, is your question? I don’t know where to begin to answer existential questions built from imprecise words.

        13. Bill Steffen says:

          None of you people ever want to debate in a public forum.

          brad said “now you reject evolutionary theory (the backbone of biological sciences) because it might just run contrary to your religious indoctrination.”

          A bit of a leap, brad. You don’t know that and it sounds elitist and arrogant to suggest that. I know scientists who have gone the other way (atheist to believer, like Collins). I could counter with (and we won’t name names) that someone’s sexual proclivities and relationship difficulties made them too eager to accept hydrogen gas turning into the natural world we see today.

        14. Brad says:

          Well, there is a reason not a single climate scientist that I am aware of “debates” here. It’s not the most scientifically literate crowd, and it’s a poor format (peer-reviewed literature is the established and most valid method for “debating” science). Not sure what the comment about sexual proclivities and relationship issues is in reference to.

        15. Bill Steffen says:

          Bill’s blog is not the forum for a debate. I’d also stay away from the barking dogs and short time segments of cable television. However, there are better venues (with a quiet and interested audience) and I would think that through the magic of YouTube, we could get enough viewers to make it worthwhile to show PowerPoints and engage in a reasonable discussion of facts. I would prefer that there both be a debate that the general public would find useful and perhaps another at a higher level for those with a background that would appreciate it. I’d be more interested in a mix of general climate, climate monitoring and climate change.

        16. Dan says:

          Brad: Its a simple question that I asked you. You respond by tossing around vocabulary words that you, no doubt, searched for on the internet. That aside, why won’t you answer the question? Also, you never offered one piece of scientific data that I asked you for in an earlier post. Why is?
          As far as previous discussions, I’ll respond to that. They mounted to nothing because you were unwilling to accept the information. Brad, as has already been point out by Irish, Humans are not Primates. Irish shot a huge hole in your DNA line of reason. Why won’t you provide the scientific proof?
          Certainly you have a position about human beings? Why the smoke screen to share that position? I’m asking what “Brad” on Bill’s Blog thinks? Also, you never answered my question about where the data is to support the “half way” point? If evolution is true there would be overwhelming evidence and you could definitely see the transition phases. Where is the evidence? Do you not have a position on you think on Human Beings? Can you not provide evidence?
          You seem to continually resort to not answering any direct questions and deflecting the issue toward another point.

        17. Dan says:

          Brad: Did you ever truly follow Darwin to the end of his life?
          You reference him. I was just wanting to know if you heard what he said toward the end of his life?

        18. Irish coffee says:

          Using arbitrary criteria or broadly defined criteria which allows one to classify humans as primates in order to jive w/ their worldview is neither intellectually honest or helpful…..primates have 48 DNA; HUMANS 46- one can spin,stretch, even fish(w/ a net the size of California) but that still doesn’t result in humans= primates as factual…but keep reaching! ;)

        19. Brad says:

          Folks, humans are primates. Study the cladograms. This is fundamental, Biology 001 stuff. The difference in chromosome number has a logical, scientific explanation. If you have a better explanation for that difference, develop a hypothesis and experiment.

          Maybe you are confusing the terms “ape” and “primate?” Humans are not considered “apes” (they split from humans in the cladogram). “Primates” encompasses prosimians, monkeys, apes, and humans. The rules of biological classification apply equally to humans as to other animals- we are animals. Nothing more, nothing less.

        20. Brad says:

          Dan- you’re hung up on Darwin, the person (latching onto “gurus” is common among monotheistic religious folks who worship a specific god or man- they are always looking for an authority figure to follow). Evolutionary biology has advanced in leaps and bounds since Darwin’s time. Keep in mind Darwin was not even aware of Mendel’s work with peas.

        21. Dan says:

          Brad: Humans are animals? Hmm. Your argument doesn’t work. One MAJOR difference is the Human brain. Can you explain this?
          I’m not hung up on Darwin. You were quoting his research so I was merely following up with you about him.
          Do you have any of your own thoughts or are you only able to regurgitate others’ opinions and work?
          Will you please answer my question?

        22. Brad says:

          Dan, humans are animals. This is pretty simple stuff.

          Let’s establish some baseline information. What is an animal? Describe descent with modification, and illustrate your understanding of speciation by defining “species” and describing the mechanisms that drive speciation. You don’t seem to have a grip on biological definitions of simple terms such as “animal” and “primate,” so you really haven’t asked any questions that I can answer in a scientific manner. Also, you illustrate your ignorance of the scientific method by suggesting each person requires his or her own “theory” of evolution- scientific theories are driven by the sum of research, not the particulars of an individual’s personality. Do you have your “own” take on gravity?

        23. Dan says:

          This is pretty simple. An animal organism other than a human, especially a mammal.
          Yes, Brad and thanks for proving my point.
          No, you are interpreting all wrong. One of my most earliest questions to you was, What do you think humans are? I’m not asking for a textbook definition. I’m not asking for what you have assimilated as your own. I will also point out another misinterpretation by you. I asked you to specifically prove with scientific data, “Gravity.” Evidently, this is how you roll. You take someone’s idea and call it your own. Otherwise, you would not have thrown my question back to me.
          Science is data driven, everybody knows that. Your most recent post proves that you can only beg, borrow and steal. You have no idea, do you?
          As long as I am here. I should ask you what Irish has already asked you. Where the other 2 chromosomes?
          Furthermore, a human is not an animal because of his/her ability to reason.

        24. Dan says:

          I can see that you are still thinking and researching the internet for this. Its ok. I’ll wait, Brad.

        25. Brad says:

          Dan- your definition of human is not biological, yet you claim to be discussing biology. I’m not link-chasing to find you answers for your chromosome question- which is interesting in and of itself, but has no bearing on the evolution debate. Humans are animals, made up of matter (you asked for my take).

        26. Irish coffee says:

          Close counts in horsehoes, NOT science Brad…but if YOU still insist that we refer to you as an animal/primate- so be it!

        27. Irish coffee says:

          Separation of fact & fiction is a necessary goal in searching for truth in field of biolology/evolution….too often lines are blurred w/ that which is “believed” to be true; and that which is “known” to be true , but sometimes our educational system is more concerned w/ propaganda and indoctrination vs. truth.

        28. Brad says:

          Irish, not sure what you mean by “close counts” in horseshoes but not in science.

        29. big Daddy BC says:

          The chromosome question is an easy one. Two pairs fused. We’ve sequenced both chimps and humans. Chromosome #2 has telomere sequences in the middle of it. Telomeres occur at the ends of chromosomes. I have one other thing for the anti-evolutions squad. Look up recapitulation. Why would God give us DNA for a tail and gill slits? Seriously.

        30. Bill Steffen says:

          Hmmm – a watermelon is 92% water and a cloud is 100% water. Clouds must have evolved from watermelons.

        31. big Daddy BC says:

          Perhaps a better analogy might concern other similar fruits. Clouds don’t reproduce sexually. An even better way is to look at DNA. The more DNA each organism has in common, the more closely related they are. I’m betting you and and a roundworm have about 99.9% in common.

        32. Bill Steffen says:

          Small changes in DNA make a big difference. Chimps and humans are 96% similar (obviously humans look more like chimps than potted petunias), but that 4% makes a big difference. Dr. Francis Collins knows a lot more than you: http://articles.cnn.com/2007-04-03/us/collins.commentary_1_god-dna-revelation?_s=PM:US

        33. big Daddy BC says:

          I think you’re getting it. I agree with Dr. Collins on a great many points and have always thought of science as the ‘how’ and spirituality as the ‘why.’ What we were discussing was evolution. Dr. Collins says this about man’s descent from apes,

          “Yes, evolution by descent from a common ancestor is clearly true. If there was any lingering doubt about the evidence from the fossil record, the study of DNA provides the strongest possible proof of our relatedness to all other living things.

          But why couldn’t this be God’s plan for creation? True, this is incompatible with an ultra-literal interpretation of Genesis, but long before Darwin, there were many thoughtful interpreters like St. Augustine, who found it impossible to be exactly sure what the meaning of that amazing creation story was supposed to be. So attaching oneself to such literal interpretations in the face of compelling scientific evidence pointing to the ancient age of Earth and the relatedness of living things by evolution seems neither wise nor necessary for the believer.”

          Those of you who cling desperately to old myths as evidence of truth despite overwhelming scientific evidence are, indeed, missing the point. Thanks for the article. Collins is a wise man.

        34. Bill Steffen says:

          Through all this you have offered no credentials, no experience, no personal effort other than hours at a computer blasting hyperbole about far-left politics. You offer no solution for the kids in Muskegon Heights or the citizens of Benton Harbor. You just want to confiscate the wealth of the private sector middle class to waste – when it’s obvious that none of it will move global temperature a tenth of a degree. And…you still have offered no proof by scientific method that hydrogen gas became by random chance the world we see today. Remember you would have to prove every step…every mutation to get a human eye. That would likely be tens of thousands of mutations, none of which is obvious from the fossil record.

        35. Dan says:

          Very interesting, here! Big Daddy posts and Brad goes away. What gives?
          If the Big Daddy would care to accept another view, I would be shocked. Big Daddy: All I ever see you do is come on and attack Bill for his weather forecasting. Yet, you have never provided any sort of weather expertise. The problem with your thinking is that, you know you are wrong. Therefore, you must hide behind what you THINK is right, political position, bumper sticker theologies, etc. Is this approach working for you? Are you gaining converts? I see its still the same with you. It is almost STUNNING for a person who makes the claims that you do.
          Brad: Are you going to return to the discussion when Big Daddy leaves for awhile?

        36. big Daddy BC says:

          Okay, so the link you posted didn’t work out because your fellow BELIEVED in evolution. lol
          It’s possible, Bill, to believe in a God that created an adaptive process. That was your fellow’s conclusion. A great many Christians agree with him.
          The eye is easy and can be reduced to a series of genes. I will explain. Eyes in single celled organisms like the Euglena are simply photosensitive cells that allow it to find the sun. In more complex organisms those same cells exist as a patch, sometimes a cup. The cup gives better directionality. Is it difficult to imagine how the cup would evolve from a patch? Now imagine the cup filled with fluid. Light refraction through a liquid medium allows some organisms to get fuzzy images. Those images give the organisms an edge and consequently reproductive success. The rest is easy. As the orifice closes, a type of pinhole camera produces even better images. Viola, the camera eye has evolved. The eye in ALL of these forms exists in the animal kingdom. Imagine every new piece of equipment as a slight increase in complexity. This is the trend. Peel off those adaptations and you reduce us to our ancestoral forms. From a genetic standpoint it’s even simpler. All of these proteins originate as codes and have all been sequenced. Go back to that link you posted. The human genome project has already done the work. The mystery is gone.

        37. Bill Steffen says:

          You missed my point entirely. You’re anti-Christian. God is competition for you. He’s only useful to promote your socialist political philosophy. You want the GREAT STATE – mommy federal government – to be your god. In your world, mommy government has stifling control over her subjects. She tells them what food to eat, what light bulb to use – bazillions of rules and regulations. These cumbersome beasts have to revert to totalitarianism (Russia with the KGB – North Korea is the worst example) to control the population (it fights human nature) and eventually you have a broad and weak lower middle class and very little progress (how many inventions come out of N. Korea now – or Cuba – or even Venezuela). Progress comes from capitalistic countries where progress is not discouraged, but rewarded. Most new inventions, from manufacturing components to new, beneficial drugs, come from the U.S. and countries with similar economic systems.

          I have challenged you to prove by scientific method each and every stop from hydrogen gas to human. It’s like a train going from Grand Rapids to Los Angeles. If you take out a foot of track, the train derails and doesn’t get to L.A. If you can’t prove each and every step – each and every mutation – then you are accepting the outcome (of the train going from G.R. to L.A.) by FAITH, since you can’t prove each step. There are those who believe in God who believe in a young earth and special creation and there are those that believe in an evolution from hydrogen to human as you do. Either way, they are still believers. Whether you believe one or another doesn’t mean you can’t be a good doctor, meteorologist or programmer.

          The point I am making by bringing up Collins (or my brilliant, head research chemist father-in-law and the conversation when he said he couldn’t find a single atheist at the Research Lab at NASA) was that many people of obvious intelligence and reason are people of faith. You detest many people of faith because they compete with your narrow political perspective of the Federal Government as “god” and the control it would bring on the population – and it’s ability to selectively reward certain groups like you and the boys at Solyndra with money confiscated from the wealth producers of the middle class, where the VAST majority of wealth comes from.

          As long as people have options, they will use them. My soon-to-be 93-year old mother switched her residence from the high tax state of Illinois to Tennessee to escape the high taxes in Illinois. Businesses are fleeing the stifling taxes and regulations of California and moving to Nevada and Arizona. For several years, HALF the new jobs created in the U.S. were created in Texas, where there is the hope of reward for entrepreneurship.

        38. big Daddy BC says:

          Am anti-fanatic. I’m anti-hypocrite. I’m anti-fascist, but I’m certainly not anti-Christ.
          I sure don’t like what you and yours do in the name of Christ. That’s for sure.

          Above I answered your question about the eye, but got no response. Now you want me to teach you about how nuclear fusion creates larger elements from smaller ones? That’s easy. Einstein in his mass energy equation shows exactly how matter is energy. In a fusion reaction, smaller elements combine to form larger ones. Some of the energy is given off as electromagnetic radiation. That’s the sunlight we enjoy. Someday Sol will go nova and eject its envelope into space creating a planetary nebula rich with newer heavier elements. Bill, you’re made from carbon, nitrogen, and oxygen. Where do you think those things came from? Really, your 1950s catholic school upbringing is sadly lacking.


        39. Bill Steffen says:

          Christ (and everything else) is useful to you only to push your socialist, big and bloated, job-killing, overregulating, freedom-stifling behemoth of a nanny-state. And no, you still haven’t proved by scientific method every step and every mutation that (supposedly) took us from hydrogen to human. Welcome to the land of faith.

          Speaking of the inefficient nanny state: http://www.wwmt.com/news/features/i-team/stories/vid_9.shtml

        40. big Daddy BC says:

          I’ve answered every question you’ve asked. I can’t help it if you don’t understand. Biology and Physics are complicated subjects and I get that it’s been forty years since you were in a classroom, but using faith to justify ignorance is more than foolish. It’s dangerous. That ignorance colors all the decisions you make on a daily basis. It’s the main reason you defend billion dollar oil companies over your friends and neighbors. I’m embarrassed for you.

        41. Bill Steffen says:

          Your blind loyalty to anti-freedom and economy-wrecking leftist politics prevents objectivity. You have proven nothing. Neither biology nor physics has or can prove that God does not exist. You always have to make “adjustments” to fit your preconceived fantasies (like the Yamal tree rings that were selectively used to further “The Cause”, as they called it). Those nasty FOIA laws and a free Press (and the free internet that you can’t control!)



        42. big Daddy BC says:

          Your post has absolutely nothing to do with the topic. Tree rings? Are you on crack? We were talking about evolution. Evolution is science. That crap you preach is politics. If you aren’t able to continue the discussion, just say so, Old Timer.

        43. Bill Steffen says:

          Sure there’s evolution. Look how Wisconsin is evolving: http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/2012/wisconsin-recall-results

          You, personally prove to all of us every step of evolution from hydrogen to human by random chance….by scientific method…testable, provable….every single step…every single mutation. If you can’t, then what you believe has an element of faith.

          ‘David Pilbeam [a well-known expert in human evolution] comments wryly, “If you brought in a smart scientist from another discipline and showed him the meagre evidence we’ve got he’d surely say, ‘forget it: there isn’t enough to go on’.” (Richard E. Leakey, The Making of Mankind, Michael Joseph Limited, London, 1981, p. 43)

    3. Andy says:

      Face it Brad, you’re not going to convert anyone on here to your climate change religion. Most people understand that climate is cyclical and is nothing to be alarmed over! My wife and I live in a modest house. Our natural gas heating bill is on average about $65 a month, our electric bill is on average about $40 a month. Our water bill is on average about $45 a month. I drive a car that gets 30 mpg on my 15 mile commute and my wife typically walks to work. The water table is fairly high on my lawn so it is not necessary for us to water our lawn in the summer. We have no children, so we’re not using any resources to provide for a large family. So, please do not preach to me about your religion!

      1. Brad says:

        I guess that means climate change denial is your “religion.” How…obtuse.

        1. Andy says:

          “I guess that means climate change denial is your “religion.” How…obtuse.”

          Fact is Brad, I really don’t care! The government and environmentalists come out with these “world is ending/sky is falling” scare tactics every 10 years or so, that are usually nothing more than a money grab to soak the tax payers. You can only cry wolf so many times before everyone stops listening!

        2. Brad says:

          So you derive your understanding of the world from mass media. Maybe yell at the television or the radio occasionally? ‘Nuff said. Nowhere do the models incorporate a “sky is falling” or “world is ending” variable. Examine the equations and find ‘em if they’re there.

        3. Bill Steffen says:

          Andy has a point. Look at Time Magazine from the Global Cooling Climate Scare of the 1970s: https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&hl=en&source=hp&biw=1152&bih=672&q=time+magazine+global+cooling&gbv=2&oq=time+magazine+global+cooling&aq=f&aqi=g1g-S1&aql=&gs_l=img.3..0j0i24.3192.7770.0.8010.…0.0.rlb_PIgubyE “How to Survive the Coming Ice Age” LOL – How did that work out???!! Remember, the big solution was a big tax increase. Now it’s global warming…same solution…higher taxes…more regulation making the price of everything go up…much higher gasoline prices…much higher energy prices. What goes around, comes around.

        4. Brad says:

          I have not read the Time article, although Time Magazine is not a refereed climate journal. I understand some of the skepticism but a lot of it amounts to throwing s— at the wall and hoping some of it sticks, much like fixxxer’s weather predictions.

        5. Andy says:

          Ok, just go thru life being scared Brad! I’m not going to worry about what may or may not happen in 50 or 100 years down the road, I don’t plan on being around here then. North Korea or Iran will probably blow up half the planet by then anyway! So it’s not going to matter if everyone is driving a Prius in the next few years!

        6. Bill Steffen says:

          We’re making progress if you “understand some of the skepticism”. There’s actually a lot to ingest. It’s become personal now that Soros and other rich political zealots are coming after TV meteorologists who don’t blame every deviation from “normal” (and normal is occasional extremes) on climate change (Forecast the Facts). We’ve traced anonymous emails to Washington D.C.

        7. Irish coffee says:

          Climate, as Bill already correctly alluded to , is by definition variable and subject to change…past, present & future.The problem w/ most interpretation/dissemination of the data relates to how it is packaged and sold.Too many messengers,bought and paid for by tax $$$ or corporate profit have a dog in the fight/skin in the game and present “do____ or die” scenarios.Gore was/is a classic,textbook example of agenda-driven corruption and fraud at it’s best- his inconvenient falsehoods even earned him a Nobel Prize! Media is the ultimate resource to manipulate consumers to do or stop doing whatever will serve the power and control interests of their services.The truth is often the Biggest Loser lost in the mix, and mets like Heidi Cullen,et;al alarmists will present only one half/side of the real story- often employing crying or starving children next to pics of polar bears fighting to stay afloat on a sinking,melting ice cube.Warming in and of itself will have outcomes pleasant and not-so-pleasant, some good, some bad effects/results.The degree to which the climate will change(next 50-100) is NOT known…which is another fact which too often is ignored.If someone wants to peddle only one side of a story they need to be challenged to produce the whole truth and not just the “convenient” ones,imo.

      2. Bill Steffen says:

        Andy – speaking of that. My CABLE bill is the bigger one now. That’s the one that’s gone up at a faster rate…almost as fast as the price of gasoline over the past several years.

        In case you didn’t see me post it above…this is the Merriam 4th definition of religion: “a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith”.

        1. Andy says:

          I hear ya Bill!

        2. Bill Steffen says:

          That’s fiction. This is reality: http://weaskamerica.com/2012/05/24/turnout/ WALKER WINS!!!

        3. big Daddy BC says:

          That’s perfect. Politics is a religion for you.

        4. Bill Steffen says:

          The polls are registered voters. When you go to likely voters Romney is up in North Carolina…he’s up in Florida by 6: http://www.quinnipiac.edu/institutes-and-centers/polling-institute/florida/release-detail?ReleaseID=1752 Look at the Daily Kos poll from Wisconsin: http://www.dailykos.com/polling/2012/5/11/WI/123/MjpEP Wisconsin is going to have TWO republican senators!!

        5. big Daddy BC says:

          I hope all those billionaires that are funding this get their money’s worth! lol All you idiots are doing is polarizing the electorate. Romney might have had a chance had the GOP not gotten sooooo greedy.

        6. Bill Steffen says:

          HA! Billionaires have only a handful of votes. The middle class are seeing the improvement in the economy of Wisconsin in the last year and a half and they want to keep the state on the right track. Heck, even the liberal Milwaukee Journal in Barrett’s own city has endorsed Walker: http://www.jsonline.com/news/opinion/we-recommend-walker-his-removal-isnt-justified-l55ecb6-152111305.html “Walker has helped to right the state’s finances with a minimum of gimmicks – the governor reported recently that the state may be able to book a $154 million surplus next year. This good news has been lost in the clutter surrounding an unnecessary recall election that will cost as much as $18 million just to stage, according to the Government Accountability Board.”

          Wow! Even liberal journalists have praise for Walker. Walker’s going to win. The union bosses will have wasted millions on this witch-hunt and it shows Michigan and the nation that they have been marginalized in the view of the majority middle class.

        7. big Daddy BC says:

          Union bosses vs. the Billionaires! Let’s see, who has more money for advertising? Who owns the tv stations and newspapers? Union bosses…that’s hilarious. How many union bosses do you think Wisconsin has, Magoo? Are these dairy farmer unions? Get a clue. Every billionaire in the country has thrown money at that race. They know if Walker falls, so too will half a dozen more, the coup will fail, and another chance will likely not come again for a long time.

        8. Bill Steffen says:

          Evidently union bosses: (As of May 2) Madison, Wisc…] Public employee unions have already spent more than $8 million in their effort to recall Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker (R) according to campaign finance reports reviewed by theMacIver News Service.

          The leading contributor is the Wisconsin Education Association Council, which has spent more than $3.7 million, including $3 million in contributions to the Wisconsin for Falk Super PAC.

          According to public documents made available by the Wisconsin Government Accountability Board, AFSCME has contributed more than $1.2 million to Wisconsin for Falk and the SEIU has given $500,000 to the We Are Wisconsin PAC.

          How’s that working out? http://weaskamerica.com/2012/05/24/turnout/

        9. big Daddy BC says:

          That’s all you could come up with? 5 million total!!? Of course the WI teachers union is pouring every hard-earned dime into it. Walker is trying to dismantle public education, so it’s contribute or lose your jobs, WI teachers. The same is true here. Every union in the state has united to put a constitutional amendment on the ballot this November. We’re talking about tradesmen, UAW, nurses, millwrights, cops, firemen, and teachers…essentially, the middle class. This is a fight between the billionaires and the middle class. God is on OUR side, not yours. Jesus does not support the wealthy in its efforts to steal from the common people.

        10. Bill Steffen says:

          ROFLMAO! Walker’s up by 7 points: https://law.marquette.edu/poll/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/MLSP6_Toplines.pdf This election won’t be as close as the last one!!!


          Public sector union members in Wisconsin still have higher pay and much better benefits than counterparts in the private sector.

        11. big Daddy BC says:

          Public sector union workers make, on average, 15% less than their private sector counterparts. You’re fibbing again.


        12. Bill Steffen says:

          That’s total and absolute B.S. Public School teachers make more money than private school teachers. And more so than salaries…it’s the benefits…substantial, defined pensions, lifetime healthcare (full eyecare, dental, chiropractor…all at substantially more thru the union health care administration), early retirement.


          Oh, and that Marquette University Poll I cited above was RIGHT ON at 7%. It sure beat the PPP poll of 3%. PPP is a Democratic polling firm. They might have known better, but found a way to show a poll within the margin of error. Anyway, can’t trust PPP or those CNN exit polls, which showed the race at 50-50. CNN was salivating over the 50-50 split, knowing that the Democrats can steal a close election (Frankin in Minnesota and Gregoire in Washington). An hour later CNN declared Walker the victor.

  15. Zachary Lassiter says:

    The severe thunderstorm warnings are just a rollin out now in several areas…


    1. DF (SE Mich) says:


      1. bobcat says:

        always with him….

  16. Charles Russell - (Greenville, MI) says:

    Hey Bill, it’s official! I’m teaming up with Micheal Phelps for 3 weeks of chasing! More here http://charlesimages-stormedia.com/charlesimages-stormedia-stormscapelive/

    I’ll update as much as I can over the next 3 weeks, should be awesome!

    1. SlimJim NW GR (1) says:

      Hope you have a great time Charles.

    2. Bruno (Northview H.S.) says:

      Charles… Have a GREAT time!! Keep us posted as much as you can, take lots and lots of pics, learn lots and stay safe!!

    3. DF (SE Mich) says:

      Isn’t he training for the Olympics?!? =)

    4. DF (SE Mich) says:

      Seriously, have fun and wear your seat belt.

  17. BTW I have to say, even with how awesome last winter was, bring on the snow for 2012-2013. I’d love to get some more extreme snow footage.

  18. Jack says:


  19. SlimJim NW GR (1) says:

    Its too early to say for sure but it just could be a stormy weekend this week! Off to a clear but cool start today.
    On a side note my tomato plants are doing very good so far and I now have several blooms on several of the plants. And with the rain yesterday it will soon be time to cut the grass again (latter today)

  20. Bernie at Da Lakeshore says:

    There is frost on the roof of my truck and my garden is uncovered…yikes!
    I hope the sun warms things up in a hurry!

  21. Robert Gregorio says:

    When you apply Ice cubes to water in a glass the water turns cold/When ice melts in the poles iceburgs and cold warer cools the ajoining water,below a lat[say the north pole]of 80 degrees the ajoining land will also be cooler/until the ice melts,in the polesthere will be a cooling effect[glass of water] Now since some areas are melting others are going to colder due to climate shift[This is not a appropiate place to explain the shift]I will leave it at that.

  22. Dan says:

    Another Picture Perfect Day! Loving this weather! More warmth on the way.
    Keep it a rolling along.

  23. Mark Waugh says:

    About “Japanese Model seasonal forecasts” whatever you shared here seems to me pretty outstanding from all side and that’s why I would like to know more and more about this post. :)

    be a model

  24. Zachary Lassiter says:

    Only one tornado warning yesterday…. http://warningweather.com/recent/tornado

    Lets see what today brings.

  25. Zachary Lassiter says:

    Only one tornado warning yesterday…. http://warningweather.com/recent/tornado

    Lets see what today brings.

    1. DF (SE Mich) says:

      Double the spam.

  26. Zachary Lassiter says:

    First mesodiscussion is out….


  27. Tom (Wyoming) says:

    Looks good to me. Maybe even get to dust off the ice fishing gear since that didn’t happen last winter.

  28. bnoppe(Albion) says:

    This weekend looks like it could be active :)

    ISSUED AT 337 PM EDT TUE MAY 22 2012




    1. Steelie says:

      Good Day,

      Will have to keep an eye on this. As I feared, the problem might be more with precip this coming weekend than cool temps.


      1. fixxxer says:

        As i said it may be a warm but wet weekend.

  29. INDY says:

    Going to get 90* + Race day like a fire out in thee YARDofBRICKS !!! I can’t wait to burn one this week’nd and listen to theee INDY 500 with all the sprites in thee world will not cool me off!!! Bring the heat Bring the speed From out in thee YARDofBRICKS …INDYY….

  30. Jordan (Twin Lake) says:

    Next week looks a lot colder:( other than Monday I saw a model showing 57 as a high the first week in June that will be a record if it gets that cold:(

    1. Soccer6713 says:

      Please say it isn’t so. Furnace running this late into the year not a good thing!

      1. fixxxer says:

        Im seeing the cold air too and they already shut our heat off until late september.

  31. greg says:

    hey bill where the heck is all the severe weather?

    1. Bill Steffen says:

      This has been a very quiet mid-April to May so far. The La Nina has ended and we are moving to a weak El Nino (that’s probably the biggest thing). Cold water is putting a damper on early hurricanes off the west coast of Mexico. Pressures are forecast to be a little higher across the Atlantic hurricane belt and the shear isn’t the most favorable…so we’re expecting a slightly lower number of storms there. With this pattern, there should be some big typhoons in the Western Pacific.

      1. fixxxer says:

        We may not have a very active severe weather season here this year.

  32. fixxxer says:

    This weekend looks warm but im seeing alot of cool air starting next week right into early june. Hope that doesnt pan out!

  33. INDY says:

    Well Bill fizzer was wrong again on his 60′s for highs this coming party week’nd!! HOT HOT HOT!! INDYY….

    1. fixxxer says:

      I wasn’t wrong about the rain. And you will get your 50′s & 60′s next week.

  34. Brad says:

    I’m seeing a few nights in the lower 30s next week, mostly in the inner suburbs on the south side of Grand Rapids, concentrated within apartment complexes.

  35. kentwoodchicken says:

    BWWWAAKK! This whole thread was a feather flyin’ fracas!

    1. Bill Steffen says:

      and that’s not an egg-aggeration!

      1. Kevin(Rockford) says:

        man, these yokes are fowl

        1. Brad says:

          Either you got your letters scrambled, or my brain is fried.

        2. bobcat says:

          Your brain is fried. I’m praying for you….

        3. Paul says:

          Thats what happens Brad when you get drunk and chase after trees, lmao.

        4. Brad says:

          Paul, you seem awfully boiled. bobcat, I hope your prayers keep me sunny side up.

        5. Paul says:

          Brad, you really need to stop drinking and molesting trees. They dont want you, lol.

  36. Skot says:

    Quit YOLKING around guys. This FEATHER is great. SNOW kidding.

  37. Mary says:

    I’m in Barrow, and it is very quickly becoming “mud season.” The snow disappears faster here than any place I’ve ever been, every year it amazes me! I don’t know if it is the low water content of the snow (the snow here reminds me of styrofoam or sand) or the 24 hour daylight; but it is getting messy. The permafrost traps all the water in the active layer, so it looks like a natural disaster every year at this time. The sea ice is still in, however, and it can snow any day here, it rarely rains. It’s actually a watery desert, if that makes any sense. And the fog? One minute clear, the next minute less than a quarter mile! Oh well, in July I get to be in Michigan and I cannot wait!

  38. big Daddy BC says:

    The blog is now all screwed up because Bill started censoring. You can’t even post a response in order. My ‘jerk’ comment above is for Paul the Racist.

    1. Paul says:

      This coming from a self proclaimed anti-Semite. Moron http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moron_(psychology) Lol.

      1. big Daddy BC says:

        I’m part jewish you idiot.

        1. Bill Steffen says:

          How can we believe you? You lie all the time. You said Romney was a polygamist. He’s not. We can’t verify that you are part Jewish. Elizabeth Warren is part-Cherokee!! LOL!!

        2. Paul says:

          With family like you, who needs enemies, Moron.

        3. big Daddy BC says:

          I lie? You’re the one trying sell global cooling! LOL Romney is a Mormon and ALL Mormons believe in the law of polygamy. Look it up, Magoo. He’s also an animal abuser, locked a handicapped teacher in a closet, and held down a homosexual classmate and cut his hair. He’s your kind of guy, Bill.

        4. Bill Steffen says:

          I never said “global cooling”. I believe that everyone from Al Gore to “Handcuffs” Hansen is for political purposes and for lots of fame and money exaggerating the effect of man’s increase in carbon dioxide on global temperature. I believe that they have dismissed obvious climate drivers (PDO, AMO, La Nina, El Nino, solar cycles) and the effects of urbanization and land use on weather stations. I think it’s obvious that global temperature has been steady now for 10 years: http://suyts.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/image_thumb5.png?w=580&h=325 (GISS temperatures) and http://stevengoddard.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/trend-24.png (Hadcrut temperatures). And this from Dr. Judith Curry of the BEST group at Berkeley: ‘There is no scientific basis for saying that warming hasn’t stopped,’ she said. ‘To say that there is detracts from the credibility of the data, which is very unfortunate.’

          Romney is not a polygamist. The Mormon Church banned polygamy in the 19th century and those who practice it have been excommunicated.

          From the Washington Post: ““The line of polygamists in Obama’s family can be traced back generations in western Kenya, where it was an accepted practice within the Luo (pronounced LOO-oh) tribe.” His great-grandfather, Obama Opiyo, had five wives, including two who were sisters. His grandfather, Hussein Onyango, had at least four wives, one of whom, Akumu, gave birth to the president’s father, Barack Obama” before fleeing her abusive husband. Obama Sr. was already married when he left Kenya to study at the University of Hawaii, where he married again. His American wife-to-be, Stanley Ann Dunham, was not yet 18 and unaware of his marital situation when she became pregnant with his namesake son in 1961.”

        5. big Daddy BC says:

          That’s funny. So in the last week you’ve accused Obama of doing drugs, eating dogs, and now polygamy. Holy smokes! The right-wing machine is working overtime on this one. Romney IS a mormon, and ALL mormons believe in the law of polygamy. That’s a fact. It’s also a fact that Romney strapped a dog to the roof of his car for twelve hours and part-way through the trip stopped at a carwash to hose the animal with a high-power sprayer for getting diarrhea brought on from the tortuous trip. It’s also fact that Romney locked his handicapped teacher in a closet AND held down one of his classmates and forcibly cut his hair because the boy was thought to be gay. This guy’s a bully, an animal abuser, and totally out of touch with what middle class Americans need. He’s filthy rich because of (not in spite of) Bush’s recession.
          This guy should be in a mental institution, not running for president. He’s vile, but it doesn’t matter. He doesn’t have a bat’s chance in hell of beating Obama in the fall.

        6. Bill Steffen says:

          You have zero reading comprehension, bigD. Obama was a big druggie – he writes about it in his book. He did eat dogs. That’s also in his book. Obama is (obviously) not a polygamist. His father and grandfather were. It’s right there in the (liberal) Washington Post.

          Romney is not a polygamist. The Mormon Church banned polygamy in the 19th century and those who practice it have been excommunicated. Romney is rich (at least by my standards), so is Obama (income for last year just shy of $800,000 and he’s made millions off his books. Romney gives a much higher percentage of his income to charity: http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/candidate-romney-more-generous-obama-biden/334331

        7. big Daddy BC says:

          …A higher percentage of his income to charity! LOL Did you see how much he pays in taxes? It was less than half of what middle class Americans pay. The only reason he donates anything is to provide tax shelters for his hundreds of millions. Of course, much of that fortune is in Switzerland.

          He’s a vile person. He held down a child and forcibly his hair because he thought the boy was gay. He locked his handicapped teacher in a closet. He strapped a dog to the roof of his car for twelve hours and hosed him down part way through for getting the runs from the trauma. The man’s a creep and a bully. It’s interesting the men you identify with.

        8. Bill Steffen says:

          Romney paid 3.2 million in taxes last year. You ought to thank him. What did you contribute? His tax liability was reduced because he itemized deductions, including giving over 16% of his income to charity. What did you contribute? Look how generous your guys are: http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-09-12-biden-financial_N.htm and http://articles.cnn.com/1998-04-15/politics/gore.taxes_1_chris-lehane-gores-tax-return?_s=PM:ALLPOLITICS

          That last story is TOTALLY UNTRUE. The family of that boy said that the story in the press was “factually incorrect”. (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/05/sister-of-alleged-romney-target-has-no-knowledge-of-any-bullying-incident/) (http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Romney-bully-school-family/2012/05/11/id/438839) It’s typical of you to lie (Romney was a polygamist, you said) and cheat (voting multiple times in polls). Can’t be honest.

          Did you see what happened in Wisconsin? and California? All that drum beating, chanting “OOOMMMM” (http://www.highplainspundit.com/2012/06/protesters-try-to-om-scott-walker-out.html), trashing the Capitol Building (http://www.leftcoastrebel.com/2011/03/wisconsin-capital-leftist-protestors-75.html)…all the death threats to Walker (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/06/scott-walker-death-threats_n_1573978.html) and every Republican in the legislature…the tens of millions spent by rich union bosses…and Walker increases his percentage over 2010!!! ROFLMAO! How the seedy and greedy have fallen! Horray for the middle class!!

  39. Snowy Whit says:

    How shameful you have to CENSOR my argument since it destroys your claims. Is that what real science is about Bill? Censoring out any criticism or evidence that doesn’t support your prejudged bias beliefs.

  40. Paul says:

    You’re an idiot snowy twit. Or maybe I should say brad, bdbc, joanne…

  41. Bill Steffen says:

    To Snowy Whit: If I censored you…I’d kick out the comment above. You can call me all the names you want, but that won’t help you convince anyone else here and in fact, your obvious selective disdain for Christianity and bringing that into climate issues will discourage those with an open mind to take you seriously.

  42. big Daddy BC says:

    You admitted to censoring him/her above.

  43. big Daddy BC says:

    lol Jerk

  44. Bill Steffen says:

    Again…nothing but insults. I can’t have someone posting bazillions of comments and the same comment over and over on every thread. It’s not fair to the dozens of other commentators that are discussing the topic of the thread or the current weather. It’s like you can’t shout “FIRE” in a crowded theater. There are reasonable limits on “free speech”.

  45. Paul says:

    Must be that bdbc’s crossdressing name changed from “joanne” to “snow twit”, lol.

  46. big Daddy BC says:

    Good one, Dangler.

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