Great Lakes Water Levels

September 27th, 2012 at 5:48 pm by under Bill's Blog, News, Weather

   Dry weather and high evaporation continue to cause the water level of Lake Michigan to go down.  The water level of  Lake Michigan/Huron is down 6″ in the last month (a very large drop in a month’s time).  The lake is down 12″ in the last year and is now 28″ below the century average.  The lake is 2 inches above the level of September 1964.  Lake Superior is down 3″ in the last month and is down 2″ in the last year.  Superior is 14″ below the century average.  Lake Erie is down 4″ in the last month and is now 15″ lower than one year ago.  Erie is 10″ below the century average.  Lake Ontario has fallen 6″ in the last month and is now 10″ below the level of one year ago.  Ontario is 12″ below the century average.  When you come down to Art Prize and see the Grand River, you can see the water level is lower than average.  As of this Thurs. evening, the flow of the Grand River in downtown Grand Rapids was 1170 cubic feet per second.  The average flow is 2200 cubic feet per second, so that means that the water flow is 53% of average.  Same story on the Rogue River at Rockford, which is now at 52% of average flow.

204 Responses to “Great Lakes Water Levels”

  1. ninifere says:

    How is it looking like we will finish the month of September as compared to average?

    1. Bill Steffen says:

      Through Thursday, Grand Rapids is exactly average for September (we were exactly average for August). We may end up +0.1 for the month, essentially average.

  2. Nathan (Forest Hills) says:

    Bill, can I buy a Bill mustache??

    1. fixxxer says:

      No but you can grow one! ;)

      1. Nathan (Forest Hills) says:

        Actually I can’t yet… But I will when I can!

    2. Billy Bob says:

      Why wood U want to look like a dork ??

  3. michael g (SE GR) says:

    More of Obama’s green energy policy…from WOOD’s site…Hey, we’re only out $150,000,000 on this deal….

    By Dani Carlson
    HOLLAND, Mich. (WOOD) – A lakeshore company that was meant to be a beacon for alternative technology is now putting its workers on furlough.

    In July of 2010, the ground-breaking of the LG Chem electric car battery factory in Holland Township was such a big deal that it brought Pres. Barack Obama to town.

    But the factory has yet to make a single battery, 24 Hour News 8 has learned, and its workers are having to take furloughs.

    1. fixxxer says:

      Big daddy?

    2. Brian(Grandville) says:

      OUCH !!!!!!

    3. Bill Steffen says:

      We got a tip that the Koreans had taken everything out of the place and the workers were just playing cards and goofing off. They got 250 MILLION dollars. Read this article: http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/ottawa_county/Obama-to-talk-battery-cells-in-Holland

      The article says: “The President (Obama) spoke at a groundbreaking for a Compact Power plant, the ninth factory to begin construction with the help of economic stimulus money, in this case $2.4 billion.” 2.4 BILLION DOLLARS!!

      “This is a symbol of where Michigan’s going,” Obama said. “This is a symbol of where Holland is going. This is a symbol of where America is going.”

      Is this REALLY a symbol of where America is going??? Don’t you wonder how they spent the 2.4 Billion Dollars??

      1. joanne says:

        Somehow I think that you aren’t telling the whole story here! LOL

        1. Brad says:

          It sounds like Bain came in for the harvest…

        2. Kimoeagle says:

          Oh? I think that you might – more appropriately – address that question to the President, Congress, the Dept. Of Energy, or whoever signed the check to Compact Power Co. Then, you might ask them, “Just what have you done with the $2.4 billion dollars of taxpayer money?” If you know more about this story, Please — inform us. I am sure that the Michigan Attorney General would be interested, don’t you?

      2. Barbara Egeler-Bailey says:

        Face it: The oil companies don’t want green energy and will block it because that would cut into their record-breaking profits. Also, I don’t see people supporting green energy to a great extent–they’re still buying huge gas hogs!

        1. Brad says:

          Profits built on decades of government investment, fwiw.

        2. Bill Steffen says:

          Wasting money in scandal after boondoggle after scandal does nothing to help the environment…nothing! There have been dozen of these bankruptcies. They get a boatload of government money (grants), pay the top brass a lot of money, then disappear. http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-09-18/news/ct-met-kass-0918-20110918_1_solyndra-loan-guarantee-obama-fundraisers-obama-white-house and http://blog.heritage.org/2012/07/24/morning-bell-the-green-graveyard-of-taxpayer-funded-failures/ and http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-57463156-10391695/another-green-energy-firm-bites-the-dust/

        3. Brian(Grandville) says:

          Face it. An airplane will not leave the ground without oil, just to get things started. And maybe some people need gas hogs, if that’s what you want to call them. I worked construction for over 12 years and contractors need heavy duty trucks to deliver supply’s to job sites. There is a need for all makes and models of vehicles to this day. It is what suites your needs. Not what the government thinks you need.

        4. big Daddy BC says:

          No one’s suggesting otherwise. The push is to free us from Saudi oil. That’ll take a culture shift that many like Bill are unwilling to make. Case in point, his boondoggle comments above. New technology is a risky business and rarely do you get a guaranteed return on any investment. What he leaves out is the billions in subsidies we give to oil companies already. Those are tax dollars we’re giving to subsidize companies that support terrorism oversees and rob us at the pump in the meantime.
          Obama’s done a nice job of supporting wind operations across the midwest. Anyone that’s been down highway 80 in the last few years has seen thousands of those 400 ft. monsters churning out electricity with zero emissions. Wind and sun are free. Why burn when you can turn? Seriously.

        5. Bill Steffen says:

          You and your ilk could care less about Saudi Arabia. The goal is control…how to control the people…tell them what car to buy and what light bulb to use…and what vegetable to eat for lunch.

          The “investors” in Solyndra didn’t lose anything! All the money was fronted by the government. Where else can you draw a salary straight from the government with no supervision then walk away and not lose a nickel. Over 535 MILLION dollars wasted on just one “company”, Solyndra.

          I’m all for solar and wind when and where it works. Remember, I was one of the first to get solar panels on my house (about 30 years ago). When the wind isn’t blowing and the sun’s not shining, you don’t have electricity. People should know that it’s much more expensive…and that it’s not very transportable. You can’t generate wind in Nebraska and ship it to New York City.

          You can buy more expensive, “clean” energy from your power company. I’ll guess that you’re not doing that, but it you really were as concerned about a global warming crisis as you claim, you would have been the first to sign up for that. http://www.consumersenergy.com/content.aspx?ID=1458

          Let me know when you’ve signed up.

        6. big Daddy BC says:

          Control? All we want to control is where we get our energy. Simply, we don’t want to continue paying for dirty energy that pads the pockets of tycoons and the Saudi royal family when free energy is blowing in the breeze. The only reason you want to continue to buy foreign oil is because they fill to the republican coffers. You’d trade your mother if the price was right.

        7. Bill Steffen says:

          Well, YOU control where YOU get your energy from and let ME control where I get MY energy from (and remember that I have solar panels and unless you prove otherwise, you don’t). People have a choice RIGHT NOW. You can choose to buy “green” energy.

          Here you go…you’ll look so much less like a hypocrite when you sign up: http://www.consumersenergy.com/content.aspx?ID=1458

          Let me know when you’ve signed up…same thing for the rest of you who want to foist “skyrocketing” energy bills on the middle class. Sign up! Now!

        8. big Daddy BC says:

          I don’t care where you get your energy from as long as it doesn’t rain mercury down into my lake and raise the temperature of the Earth and acidify the rain. What I do care about is my tax dollars going to subsidize dirty coal and oil when there’s a cleaner way. What I do care about is when my tax dollars are used to pay the Saudi royal family and the evil empire (Exxon).

          I’m thrilled that you have solar panels, but be honest because we’ve had this discussion, they don’t generate power. They’re convection heaters and that’s great, but the real problem isn’t natural gas, it’s coal. As far as I’m concerned, you’d be surprised, but I’m not here to brag. I’m here to correct your mistruths, which is becoming a full time job.

  4. Barry in Zeeland says:

    So as the lakes go lower and lower, that means less and less lake effect snow right? I’m all in for that!

    1. Brian(Grandville) says:

      No, that is due to global warming, but you already knew that right. LOL.
      A drop in the water level of only a few inches could have no effect in the amount of LES.Mother nature always wins.
      Mother nature 1 Man 0.

      1. Barbara Egeler-Bailey says:

        Some will still claim global warming is not a problem as the last drop of water evaporates and the world climate goes crazy.

        1. Bill Steffen says:

          C’mon Barbara…that’s absurd hyperbole! “the last drop of water evaporates?” A 1.7 TRILLION dollar annual debt…that’s a problem! It’s our money that’s disappearing! Especially when we waste so much money. $250 million wasted at LG Chem? Over 535 million on Solynda? We’ve got to have some accountability!

        2. Brad says:

          Let’s start by taking back tax cuts that were not turned into new jobs.

        3. Bill Steffen says:

          Wrong! Listen to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AAEp0J_hzU The tax cut worked…unemployment went down…this is the same plan Reagan implemented and unemployment went down by HALF. Reagan was reelected in a 49-state landslide!

        4. joanne says:

          I love how everyone blames me and others of turning the discussion political Bill. LMFAO

        5. joanne says:

          Come on Bill, that’s absurd hyperbole and you know it. Trickle down economics haven’t worked. The proof is in the history of it. You can’t argue with the numbers Bill. I know that you need to push this for your corporation, but it just plain doesn’t work.http://www.decisionsonevidence.com/2012/08/more-evidence-supply-side-trickle-down-economics-doesnt-work/

        6. Bill Steffen says:

          joanne, you are simply wrong. Go here: http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000 You look at numbers for the last 10 years and at the top you can look back as far as 1948. January 2009 unemployment was at 7.8%, currently at 8.1%. That doesn’t include the millions who have simply stopped looking for work.

          If you plug in the numbers, you can see the significant decrease after the tax cuts of 1981-82 were implemented. (side note…MORE, not less tax revenue came in…look at all the new schools that were built in the late 1980s, early 1990s…so don’t see a lot of new schools being built today). Plug in 1960 and you’ll see the downward movement of unemployment after the tax cuts of the 1962-63. Again, listen to the words of John Kennedy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AAEp0J_hzU and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmHdqWPB_S8

        7. big Daddy BC says:

          There are plenty of jobs out there. The problem is finding qualified workers. GNP is up higher than ever before. Obama hired more people in 2010 than Bush did in eight years. Bush collapsed our great economy with policies Mitt promises to implement if he’s elected. Why would we possibly want to go back to 2007 and 08? If we’re going to go back, how about to the Clinton/Gore presidency when the worst we had to worry about was a stained dress! Clinton left Bush Jr. with a fricken SURPLUSS! …A SURPLUSS, Bill. Did Reagan do that? How about Nixon or any of the other great republicans? Anyone remember Cheney sayin’ “Deficits don’t matter.”
          Have a look at this comparison.
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Budget_Deficit_1971_to_2001.png

        8. Bill Steffen says:

          Your link to budget deficits stops in 1999!! It’s 2012!! Let’s get you up-to-date: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Fc_Nnr4uqPQ/TiXKJtzDxTI/AAAAAAAAAlA/HLFxGa44xjI/s400/CNBC_Explains_debt_deficitB.gif

          You wrote: ” Obama hired more people in 2010 than Bush did in eight years.” Yeah, and pigs fly…the unemployment rate is significantly higher today than when Obama took office. The percentage of adults actually working has declined significantly…part of that is people just giving up looking. Things are swinging in the wrong direction: http://money.cnn.com/2012/09/21/news/economy/unemployment-rate-states/index.html

        9. big Daddy BC says:

          I’m not sure about Snyder flying, but I do know that Obama did create more jobs in 2010 than Bush did throughout his entire presidency. The reason I put up a graphic that ended in ’99 was to demonstrate how lackluster Reagan’s eight years really were. Bill Clinton clearly had to undo the damage Reagan did to pull out of deficit spending and create a surplus. Again, republicans create more debt than democrats and clearly don’t mind. Again, Cheney…”Deficits don’t matter.” These aren’t secrets. Anyone can find this stuff as easily as you. BTW, it’s funny that you want to examine anything between Reagan and now. The RNC clearly showed how repubs don’t want to acknowledge Bush I or II. They didn’t invite one single member of the Bush candidate, nor did any one of the speakers even mention the Bush legacy. LOL I wonder why.

          Now, today we do have a deficit. It’s big and it’s ugly and it’s the direct result of Bush tax cuts for the rich. We tried trickle down, Bill. It doesn’t work. Why would we possibly go back to economic policies from 2007? It’s time to move forward, not back.

          So here’s a great graphic history per president of debt vs. GDP. Look at the trend under Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II. Up, Up, Up!!! How can you possibly defend against that. I know, change the subject. LOL
          http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/Federal_Debt_1901-2010.png

        10. Bill Steffen says:

          First, Reagan cut unemployment in half…that’s a fact. Second, Bill Clinton governed as a centrist and what Obama/Reid/Pelosi are doing is NOT what Bill Clinton did. The deficits today are enormous and unsustainable. You’d be screaming if Harry Reid decided to behave more like Clinton and actually produce a budget (like he’s required to do…but hasn’t for 3 years).

          Check it out: http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000 You look at numbers for the last 10 years and at the top you can look back as far as 1948. January 2009 unemployment was at 7.8%, currently at 8.1%. That doesn’t include the millions who have simply stopped looking for work.

          http://money.cnn.com/2012/09/26/news/economy/ceos-fiscal-cliff-jobs/index.html?iid=SF_E_River

          http://money.cnn.com/2012/09/27/news/economy/los-angeles-unemployment/index.html?iid=SF_E_River

          http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/cewbd.pdf

        11. Kimoeagle says:

          By the time that happens, we will be mining the moon for our water.And you and I will be the dust of ages gone by. Agreed?
          Carpe Diem, Barbara.

        12. big Daddy BC says:

          I don’t agree for one simple reason, exponential growth. Our population is growing exponentially and our energy needs are increasing right along with it. We need to get this addiction to fossil fuels under control. What we’ve seen happen since the industrial revolution is going to grow at the same rate as our population. We won’t survive an exponential increase in all of the waste that comes along with us.
          Your carpe diem is something our children will have to endure. People like Bill have argued that it’s worth it to protect big oil, but I whole heartedly disagree. When we become independent from those oil companies that hold our economy ransom, we’ll be a stronger, healthier nation.

          And Bill, I put up a graphic that showed how clearly debt follows the republicans from administration to administration, yet you have no comment. LOL Mitt can’t run on lowering the debt when his plan raises it. You teabags are nuts. Most of us aren’t stupid enough to believe that. I said MOST.

        13. joanne says:

          Bill,
          I thought that Reagan had a democratic congress to take the blame for all of the countries problems under Reagan? Doesn’t that mean you should be giving them credit for any positive stats that you google out there. You are such a hypocrite.

        14. Bill Steffen says:

          Democrats were different then. I backed a Democrat for President in 1972 (Jackson). Listen to John Kennedy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEdXrfIMdiU My senator at the time, Bill Proxmire, used to give out the “Golden Fleece Award” to the government agency what was wasting taxpayer money. Democrats today won’t even come up with a budget. I’ve given Clinton credit when credit was due…revamping welfare, coming up with balanced budgets for 3 years. Democrats are governing like Carter, not Clinton today.

          U.S. Population is NOT growing exponentially. Take away immigration and it’s not growing at all. Much of the world is seeing a significant population decline (much of Europe, Russia, China, Japan) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population_growth_rate

  5. Brad says:

    Are these Ryan Maue’s numbers, or are you posting “biased” data provided by the crooks at NOAA?

    1. Bill Steffen says:

      You’re running on empty, Brad. Admit it…there’s more than a dozen of these multi-million dollar bankruptcies. They HAVEN’T SOLD A SINGLE BATTERY??!! NOT ONE??!! Where did the 250 million dollars go? Back to Korea?? Politically connected cronies make big bucks and the taxpayer gets the bill.

      1. Brad says:

        When I read your posts about Korea and “the Koreans” this is how I picture you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXnEeNglN5g

        1. Bill Steffen says:

          Could you imagine Brad’s reaction if Bush was doing this? Brad, you own the penthouse at the Hypocrite Hotel.

        2. Brad says:

          LOL! You can’t posit a hypothetical scenario and use it to call somebody a hypocrite…geez…

        3. Brad says:

          Right, and the part about my reaction “if Bush was doing this?” Hypothetical. Objection sustained!

        4. Bill Steffen says:

          Hypothetical and true.

    2. Kimoeagle says:

      You with the big mouth. PROVE that there are crooks. Don’t label carelessly. It’s called slander. The people of NOAA and their efforts have done a lot more for you and me than you will ever know.

      1. joanne says:

        He is being sarcastic Kimo. Pay attention bud

        1. Bill Steffen says:

          And pay attention to this:

          “The five-year mean global temperature has been flat for the last decade….” – James Hansen et al.

          Wow! Even James Hansen says global temperatures have leveled off!

  6. deborah says:

    Nothing ventured, nothing gained. What’s your alternative, Bill – to just drill for more oil and pollute the planet some more? You of all people should be aware of the consequences.
    Regarding some of the stimulus misfires. As the New Deal (and subsequent WWII gear-up) proved, in a crisis government must provide the spark when corporations and banks sit on their money.

    1. Bill Steffen says:

      Hi Deborah! How did you find my blog? I hope you’re well. Come see ArtPrize sometime…the city comes alive! Lots to see and it’s all for free!

      Nothing ventured? REALLY?? 250 million dollars was ventured! And it’s into the billions if you count all solar bankruptcies!

      Surely you can’t support throwing money away like this! We just wasted 250 million dollars on one building that didn’t produce a single battery??!! For about 6 million or about 2.5% of that 250 million, you could have given a full scholarship to every engineering student at Grand Valley! The entire budget of the Grand Rapids Public Schools is under 200 million. The “Solyndra scandal” was about 535 million. There are more than a dozen other bankruptcies like this. That’s a LOT of money wasted. We are piling up unsustainable deficits and the longer we delay making necessary changes, the harder it’s going to be. The average buyer of a Chevy Volt has an income of 165K – so the government grant of 10K is a subsidy for the rich. With the massive GM bailout and subsidies for just about everything in the Volt, it becomes an incredibly expensive car to deliver (to the rich people who buy them). We’d get a lot more mileage by giving people a smaller subsidy to buy a Chevy Cruze (a new 2013 Eco – 42 mpg highway and under $20K) or Prius (50 mpg and you can also get one for under 20K – there’s a lot of political conservatives that drive a Prius).

      1. Brad says:

        That’s funny…we celebrate risk when a private entrepreneur opens a business, but freak out when a public investment goes bad. I understand at one level, but the bankruptcies should be put in context of the totality of government investment in private business. I wonder what % of the total federal investment in private business was locked up in these specific businesses (Solyndra, etc.).

        1. Bill Steffen says:

          We freak out because it’s OUR money…OUR wasted money. We could have used that money…look how many college scholarships we could have given out for the 250 MILLION that was blown just at LG Chem and the 535 MILLION blown at Solyndra. This is cronyism…the top brass risks nothing…none of their own money…they pay themselves big bucks, then disappear. LG Chem has been there for years…no one in the government or the press thought about asking when in several YEARS they haven’t produced a single battery??

        2. big Daddy BC says:

          “On top of these record profits, oil companies are also getting billions a year in taxpayer subsidies,” Obama said. “Think about that. It’s like hitting the American people twice. You’re already paying a premium at the pump right now. And on top of that, Congress thinks it’s a good idea to send billions more of your tax dollars to the oil industry?”

          President Obama’s Bid To End Oil Subsidies Voted Down By Senate
          http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/29/oil-subsidies-senate-president-obama_n_1387789.html

          Speaking of hypocrites, Bill, you support billions in subsidies to oil companies. How many scholarships would those buy, I wonder.

        3. Bill Steffen says:

          The Democrats have a majority in the Senate (at least until January). Your link says that 4 Democratic Senators switched to vote with the Republicans. So, blame them. It’s because of them that the bill didn’t pass.

          I’m not big on the government subsidizing much of anything. It’s never fair…like the waivers for Obamacare for the politically connected.

          I’d probably go thru the subsidies individually and see if eliminating them would hurt the lower and middle class through higher prices at the pump. However, as I have said before…oil is a worldwide commodity and all the big players are not American. Exxon-Mobil, the biggest U.S. oil company, is only the 17th biggest world oil company (Shell is Royal DUTCH Shell…B.P. is BRITISH Petroleum…Citgo is owned by the government of Venezuela and Hugo Chavex). If we make it too expensive to market oil in the U.S. (which many of your type would love to see)…they’d sell their oil to China, Russia, Indonesia, India, Brazil and everyone else who will pay the going rate.

          You’re plan of “skyrocketing” energy costs and $9 a gallon European level gasoline will destroy the economy and REALLY hurt the poor and middle class.

        4. Brad says:

          Bill, just an FYI, Mitt Romney’s job would be not to worry about 47% of Americans. So, don’t worry about the poor, or about the bottom half of the “middle” class.

        5. Bill Steffen says:

          I care a lot more than you do…you stated on the blog that you want $7 a gallon gasoline (and I give you credit for being honest about that). How can the poor, the lower class and even the middle class afford that. For what? It wouldn’t lower global temperature 1/100th of a degree!

          I stand for the middle class…and affordable utility rates…for the small business owner…for better schools with the parents able to have a choice in their child’s education.

        6. joanne says:

          Now that is nonsense Bill. You stand for the rich corporations. You could care less for the middle class or small business. Tell me one thing that Mitt is planning on doing for small business around here? While you are at it, try to tell me one thing that Gov Snyder has done that positively effects small business, and I don’t mean DeVos.

        7. Bill Steffen says:

          Small business owners overwhelmingly support Snyder. The unemployment rate soared under Granholm…we went from less than 3.5% under Engler to over 14% under Granholm. We did worse than any other state! That means that a lot of small businesses (who hire the most workers) were not doing well. The first thing Snyder did was get rid of the obnoxious Michigan Business Tax. He replaced it, as Democrat Andy Dillon said, with a “simpler, fairer tax”. We also stopped the SEIU from scamming the health care money from home health workers…money that was supposed to help patients. They had diverted over 34 million dollars from the care of patients to the pockets of the SEIU bosses. Snyder’s looking out for the health care workers and their patients, not the fat-cat union bosses.

  7. fixxxer says:

    Lol @ this thread!

    1. Kimoeagle says:

      Yep. No weather, but lots of hot air, right, fixxxer??? ;-)

  8. Tyler says:

    Hey Bill I know off topic but how far is Chicago from G.R.? Next summer or spring when I go downstate I want to swing around to Chi town. Just wondering how far it is going that way. You take 94?

    1. Jack says:

      179.7 Miles …..Tyler. :-)

      1. Bill Steffen says:

        Chicago driving can be a real pain. I’ve had days when it’s taken my longer to drive from Gary to Evanston than from Grand Rapids to Gary.

    2. Kimoeagle says:

      This may, or may not be convenient for you, Tyler, or an answer.
      ANYway, when we go into the Windy (from NE Indiana), we go over to South Bend, and catch the South Shore (commuter RR) on in to downtown. Our son, who lives in Chicago, does the reverse, takes the CTA over to one of the downtown stations, and out to SBN, where we pick him up. Granted, it is a compromise, but it works, depending upon what you want to do in the Windy. We recently went over for a wedding in Barrington,, and had to drive. ————- So it depends. FWIWD.

    1. Bill Steffen says:

      Add it to the list (compiled by the great British Professor and numbers genious, Dr. John Brignell) http://www.numberwatch.co.uk/warmlist.htm

  9. Jack says:

    Happy Friday Bill !! Weather Wise, How’s It Looking, For Fridays Sky Lantern Launch .?? ;-)

    1. Bill Steffen says:

      I think we’re good to go…I’m hoping I can sneak away for a little bit between shows and see it.

      1. Jack says:

        Thank- You Sir Bill : Hope to see You There as Well.! , :-)

  10. Tyler says:

    Why would there be a traffic backup from Gary to Evanston? Does Chicago’s heavy traffic spread as far into southwest Michigan?

    1. Bill Steffen says:

      Too many vehicles for the capacity of the roads in Chicago. There’s not enough lanes on I-90/I-94 to get people through the city.

  11. Sandi says:

    Just returned from couple days in Traverse City and Charlevoix…speaking of wind power, etc – all those dozens of wind turbines up there were perfectly still…not generating any power that I could see. Also lake levels really down in marinas up there. Incidently Bill, colors are better mid state and GR than up north – so far anyway.

    1. joanne says:

      Sandi,
      I just returned form a trip to Canada. I was amazed at all of the wind turbines in Ontario. They were turning like crazy. I was on the water and it appeared to me that there were hundreds of them all gathering energy. What a great thing to see.

      1. Bill Steffen says:

        I did a google search for “wind turbines Ontario”. Some interesting links turn up: https://www.google.com/search?q=wind+turbines+ontario&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a including a number of health concerns.

        Would you favor putting wind turbines in Lake Michigan? Look at this Dept. of Energy map: http://www.windpoweringamerica.gov/images/windmaps/mi_50m_800.jpg Much of the land area of Michigan is rated “poor” for wind energy. Also, the hottest day of this year (July 6), the average wind speed was under 5 mph for much of Lower Michigan…so you’re getting virtually NO energy from wind on the day you need it the most (record demand).

        1. Sandi says:

          NO WAY do I want to see them in our lovely lake. Maybe these turbines are more logical in wide open plains in midwest. I just so see that they work that well in MI.

        2. big Daddy BC says:

          I guess you prefer your view of the mercury laden lake unobstructed. That’s due to burning coal. Women of child bearing age can’t even eat Lake Michigan Fish anymore. Sad but true.
          There are 144 coal plants in the eight states surrounding the Great Lakes.

          http://www.freep.com/article/20111012/NEWS06/110120398/Mercury-still-big-problem-Michigan-s-fish-report-says

        3. Bill Steffen says:

          It’s nice to have reliable electricity. On the hottest day of the year back in July – the average wind speed in Lower Michigan was between 3 and 6 mph. Wind turbines would have been as still as a deer in headlights. Grand Rapids gets only 20% of possible sunshine in December, when daylight shrinks to only 9 hours out of 24. And look at the solar factories that are scandalous boondoggles: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-09-18/news/ct-met-kass-0918-20110918_1_solyndra-loan-guarantee-obama-fundraisers-obama-white-house

        4. big Daddy BC says:

          So who gives a crap about the pollution caused by these coal burning monsters? That’s your response? Mercury is a heavy metal toxin that causes neurological degradation and birth defects. Wind has no chemical byproducts. It creates jobs and electricity. Imagine if we used the billions in oil subsidies to build turbines.
          And as far as sunshine and wind goes, of course we’d need to consider a diverse array of energy producing means. No one is suggesting otherwise. It’s pure nonsense to frame the discussion in that way.

          http://www.freep.com/article/20111012/NEWS06/110120398/Mercury-still-big-problem-Michigan-s-fish-report-says

        5. Bill Steffen says:

          The 1.7 TRILLION DOLLAR annual deficits are a much bigger threat. Natural gas (which is taking the place of coal across the country): http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444549204578020594010186704.html That and the bad economy.

          Read this: http://news.yahoo.com/ap-impact-co2-emissions-us-drop-20-low-174616030–finance.html

        6. big Daddy BC says:

          Natural gas isn’t taking the place of coal. That’s right wing hyperbole, plain and simple. As is the imaginary trade-off between reducing the debt and encouraging wind and solar energy production. As has been said several times by many on this blog, if we simply took the billions in subsidies we pay to Exxon and the Saudi royals and used it to incentivize green energy, we’d quickly put ourselves back in the driver’s seat. As it stands, the American people have become slaves to the gas pump.
          And what do you do? …make fun of fuel efficient cars and the people that drive them. You’re a closed minded man who’s on the company payroll.

        7. Bill Steffen says:

          That’s a lovely thought that has absolutely NO basis in reality…none! Wind and solar already get MASSIVE subsidies and most of the oil subsidies go to small drillers, not Exxon. I’ve asked you before to name a subsidy that Exxon gets that would not be passed along to the poor and middle class at the pump and you’ve never responded.

          I don’t “make fun” of fuel efficient cars. I have a Vibe..not exactly a gas hog. I do think it’s insane to throw tens of thousands of dollars into each Volt. It’s a subsidy for the rich (average buyer of a Volt has an income of 165K) and you’d come out ahead in reducing carbon by giving smaller incentives to buy other cars (Cruze, Prius).

      2. joanne says:

        Good point Bill. Lets scrap alternative energy and drill baby drill. That way your sacred Exxon will continue making Billions of dollars on the backs of the middle class. BTW, Exxon Mobil only paid about 2% in taxes last year. LOL and you think they need less taxes. It’s obvious who’s side you are on.

        http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/06/most-profitable-corporations-tax-rate_n_1746817.html

      3. Bill Steffen says:

        I NEVER said scrap alternative energy. We are wasting boatloads of money right now with no accountability. Crony investors are grabbing grants and pocketing the money without turning out any product. Not a single good battery from LG Chem?

        “Exxon-Mobil paid 2% in taxes last year”?? That’s not true! This is from the far-far left Think Progress:

        “Citizens for Tax Justice reported Exxon paid only 17.6 percent taxes in 2010, lower than the average American, and a Reuters analysis using the same criteria estimates that Exxon will pay only 13 percent in effective taxes for 2011.”

        So even the far left admit the last year that they had actual figures for the rate was just under 18%. Source here: http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2012/03/26/452213/exxon-mobils-tax-rate-drops-to-13-percent-after-making-35-percent-more-profits-in-2011/

        It’s actually more than that: http://www.forbes.com/sites/nickschulz/2012/08/09/taxation-hero-exxonmobil-pays-3-in-taxes-for-every-1-in-profit/

        1. big Daddy BC says:

          But not lower than MITT ROMNEY!!! LOL 14%!! Mitt and Exxon have more in common than that.

    1. Bill Steffen says:

      We’ve got a recurving typhoon…the trof is coming back to the East – could be a first frost for many.

  12. steve says:

    Please can the political garbage, Bill. It’s “Bill’s Blog” but that doesn’t mean you have to perpetuate the sniping. Stick to weather-related posts and leave the politics to some other site.

    1. Bill Steffen says:

      The above post IS a weather-related post, steve. It’s about Great Lakes Water Levels. Go up top and read it again.

      1. big Daddy BC says:

        Ouch. You’ve been told, Bill. LOL
        BTW, Bill, how many weather related comments HAVE you made on this thread?

        1. Bill Steffen says:

          Read the thread. I’ve just responded to your usual nonsense talking points.

          Antarctic icecap – biggest EVER in history and still growing!
          http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/seaice-area-antarctic21.png

        2. big Daddy BC says:

          Again, how many weather comments, for clarification? What’s that? Two?

        3. Kimoeagle says:

          By the way, big Daddy BC, just how many weather comments have YOU made on this thread?
          Hello? Couldn’t hear you.How many? Cat got your tongue??
          Or are you choking on your own nonsense?

        4. joanne says:

          You’re one to talk Kimo. You do nothing but pic fights and demonstrate your lack of understanding of everyone’s comments.

        5. big Daddy BC says:

          I’m not really that interested in weather. As Bob Dylan said, “You don’t need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.” But I’m not running a blog that’s supposed to be about weather. I’m just a concerned citizen who doesn’t like the way Bill exploits his celebrity status to lie about climate change and politics. Why are you here?

        6. Bill Steffen says:

          You’re a special interest shill and a proven liar (you said that Romney was a polygamist). You see “climate change” as a means to divert buckets of money to special interests. You want “skyrocketing” utility rates and $9 a gallon “European level” gasoline rates. I stand for the poor and middle class – I want reasonably priced utility rates and energy prices.

  13. joanne says:

    If one thing is for certain, Right Wing Extremists, like Bill Steffen have always had the mic. They scream and call names, repeat the same thing and attempt to label everyone who doesn’t agree with them as stupid. I have been watching and participating in this little right wing blog for years and I want to say BRAVO to all of the Democrats who are logging on and speaking their minds. The Democratic Party is the party of who usually sits back and lets the Republicans put their feet in their mouths over and over. This tactic, though it’s the high road, usually allows these people to influence the general public of many skewed ideas. Many of which are complete fabrications. Bill uses the tactic of insult and repetition of lies to make his points. A few years back, there were only a couple people on here setting Bill’s lies straight and I will admit that I was an observer, but now there are many. Keep up the truth people and don’t be afraid to speak up against the Right wing machine. This one is called Bills Blog.

    For those Republicans on here, please know that I don’t find you repulsive. I believe that your party has been taken over by the extremists, such as Bill Steffen or the corporations that own people like him. I have many Republican friends and family that I see eye to eye with. They feel lost because they were brought up as fiscal conservatives with old fashion values. Their party has left them and they don’t know where to turn. I feel more than ever that your party needs to fight against these extremists to get your party back. I see signs out everywhere stating “Take back our country in November”. Those signs should really be saying “Take back our Party from the Corporations who bought it”

    1. deborah says:

      Thank you for that reasoned response, Joanne. I, too, grew up among reasonable republicans. It was engaging and hopeful to have spirited discussions about challenges and solutions. Now, harangues and hatred. Two wars unpaid for, except with the tragic sacrifice of the very few who paid the price. The batteries might not be coming off the assembly line in Holland, but our soldiers came home to grieving families while Halliburton built substandard tanks, other vendors installed barracks showers that electrocuted, tanks were insufficiently armored. If we had accomplished the mission in Afghanistan instead of rushing off to war in Iraq we’d be building schools at home instead of enemies abroad. We’re still paying for the failed trickle down jingoism of the Bush years, and will for years to come.

      1. Ned S. (Now in South Holland) says:

        As I recall, Obama called Afghanistan the “Good War.” Now that he’s taken it over, he’s basically lost the war. He announced his surge and the end date. The Taliban is just sitting back, waiting for us to leave, taking their shots whenever they have an opening. As soon as we’re gone, the Taliban takes over. We’ll have wasted more lives and treasure for the “Good War.” One more comment about trickle down economics. It sure as hell doesn’t trickle up. Did you ever see a poor person give another person a job?

        1. Brad says:

          People purchasing Apple products make Apple the success that it is. No?

        2. big Daddy BC says:

          Losing the war. He killed Bin Laden. Hadn’t you heard?

          As far as trickling goes, who wants to be trickled on at all? Your argument is flawed because consumers buy the products industry manufactures. If people can’t afford those products, the corporations fail. Take what happened in Detroit after Bush collapsed the economy. No one could afford to buy cars, so the domino effect caused plants to close all over Michigan, putting more people out of work, and on and on. When the middle class is strong, everyone wins, so yes, lower the burden on us and the rest will repair itself. Mitt’s plan of raising taxes on the middle class to pay for corporate tax cuts will only dig us into a bigger hole.

        3. Bill Steffen says:

          It was the Navy Seals who killed Bin Laden. You can read more here: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-08-30/news/sns-rt-us-usa-security-binladen-bookbre87l16c-20120822_1_bin-laden-raid-navy-seals-account

          Your car argument is nonsense. The other car companies didn’t go bankrupt. We’re still driving the same number of vehicles. Market share for GM has been steadily dropping for years. Look at this graph: http://media.economist.com/images/20090606/CBB573.gif It’s a steady decline.

          Obama’s about to raise taxes BIG TIME on the middle class (Jan 1 – after the election): http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/fullpage/taxmageddon–16628520

        4. big Daddy BC says:

          Actually the it was the three big American companies that were going under. You’ll recall that Obama saved GM, something Mitt was opposed to. In fact didn’t he say, ” if the automakers get the bailout that their chief executives asked for yesterday, you can kiss the American automotive industry goodbye. It won’t go overnight, but its demise will be virtually guaranteed.”
          Maybe that’s why he isn’t campaigning here. He clearly didn’t understand what it would take to turn things around. …And now he wants to run the entire country?

        5. Bill Steffen says:

          First, Ford wasn’t going under. Obama didn’t save GM. If anything the U.S. Taxpayers “saved” GM. Again look at this graph: http://media.economist.com/images/20090606/CBB573.gif It’s a steady decline. Unless GM stops this decline, they’re just going to have to come back for billions more taxpayer money. What does it gain consumers (who still have a choice as to what vehicle to purchase) or the taxpayer to pump billions into one or two auto manufacturers? You’re hurting Ford by pumping up their competition. Why should we subsidize by tens of thousands of taxpayer dollars each Volt when a Prius costs half as much and gets 50 mpg? If you really cared about the environment, you’d subsidize the Prius! This is how you show your true motives..you really don’t care about the environment…you care about the union and the money they toss back to the party.

        6. big Daddy BC says:

          Volts get 95 mpg and Prius owners get the same tax credit but only 50 mpg. Volts cost more, but you can plug those in at night and use even less gas. They’re a better car AND they’re American. I can’t believe you’d suggest subsidizing a Japanese car over an American made car. Are you suggesting that by subsidizing foreign companies, we’ll fix our own economy? THAT fails the logic test. Wow, you really sound like Romney now. He’s the one that suggested we let Detroit go bankrupt. Sure glad the president went his own way, fixed Detroit, and stabilized Michigan’s economy. The fate of this entire state does and has always rested in the fate of FORD, GM, and CHRYSLER. To even suggest giving GM’s money to Toyota shows how very little you understand or care about the economics of our great state. A lot of Michiganders are grateful our president had the foresight to loan GM that money. If he’d taken your advice, tens of thousands more would be out of work. Stick to weather, Bill.

        7. joanne says:

          The best is that Romney claimed that he was responsible for the bail out after it worked! What a big liar. He had NOTHING to do with it.
          http://www.forbes.com/sites/michelinemaynard/2012/05/08/mitt-romney-takes-credit-for-the-auto-bailout-say-what/

        8. Bill Steffen says:

          And Gore claimed that he invented the Internet, and bigDaddy claimed that Romney was a polygamist…and Bill Clinton didn’t have sex with “that woman” and Jesse Jackson and Timothy Geitner and here’s a bunch more: http://www.ijreview.com/2012/08/12246-the-top-25-democrat-scandals-the-media-wont-discuss/ Quite the lot.

          The Volt is subsidized to the tune of 6 figures per car: http://reason.com/blog/2011/12/21/congratulations-taxpayers-chevy-volt-is

          Detroit has few options left. You don’t want bankrupcy and you don’t want an Emergency Manager. A one-time infusion of money would be nothing more than a very temporary fix. It truly needs a moral and spiritual awakening, the entire dynamic has to change. Perhaps the rich unions can chip in: http://reason.com/blog/2011/12/21/congratulations-taxpayers-chevy-volt-is

      2. Glenn Pohl says:

        Well stated Deborah. For those you too young to remember “the golden Reagen years” or “morning in America slogan” The reality was that that administration actually trippled the National Debt from 1 trillion to over 3 which started the snowball rolling at an unstoppable and unimaginable rate since! Oh and let’s not forget the good old “Iran Conta Scandal and Ollie North!

        1. Bill Steffen says:

          Reagan had Democratic Congresses and that’s where spending tax money is decided. You can clearly see the effect of Reagan’s policies in the HUGE cut in unemployment, the HUGE decrease in inflation and the HUGE increase in tax revenues because so many more people were working and paying taxes.

          If you’re interested in scandal, check this out: http://www.humanevents.com/2012/09/25/norris-fast-and-furious-whitewash-by-justice-department/ and http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-57461204-10391695/a-primer-on-the-fast-and-furious-scandal/

        2. joanne says:

          I love the fact that Republicans always blame the congress when the numbers show how badly their administrations botched things up. Nice try Bill, but that’s nonsense.

        3. Bill Steffen says:

          Since the Democrats had two years with a 60-vote majority in the Senate and an overwhelming majority in the House – they could have passed anything they wanted. The blame or credit lies solely with them. The economic plan was the +800 BILLION DOLLAR stimulus. Where did the money go? Are there new schools? new roads? They even admit it didn’t go well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4p4-vPrcDBo Middle class income is dropping: http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/americans-incomes-have-fallen-3040-during-obama-recovery_653116.html College debt is skyrocketing. The price of a gallon of gasoline has more than doubled (that’s what they wanted: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122904040307499791.html)

          The election of 2010 was a restraining order.

        4. Irish coffee says:

          Brave new “Golden YEARS” WORLD ORDER HERE WE COME!…..Big Brother has plans to take over school lunches via forced healthy “choices”…smart cars will OWN YOU…free speech about to get real $$$$$/expensive w/ sanctions/restrictions under the guise of “hate-speech”:- where dissent is discouraged and politically correct speech(leftist “relativism”)is rewarded…candid CAMERAS and drones will capture every move made on public and what little will be left of private property….”In God we Trust” will be replaced w/-
          “In BIG GOVERNMENT we Trust”……”1984″ DELAYED NOT DENIED!!! ;)

        5. Irish coffee says:

          Not to mention my/our grandkids stir-frying rice for xing yao ling in his Chinese-American palace to repay whatever comes after a $999 “trillion” debt!

        6. big Daddy BC says:

          Did Irish Coffee convert to the democratic party? Cool. Welcome, brother.

        7. Bill Steffen says:

          Actually, hundreds of thousands of people have been leaving the Democratic Party: http://www.politico.com/blogs/charlie-mahtesian/2012/08/dem-registration-down-in-key-states-132150.html

          Check out this African-American Congressman who switched from Democrat to Republican: http://www.officialarturdavis.com/

        8. big Daddy BC says:

          If that’s true, why’s Mitt five points behind? He doesn’t have a lead in a single battleground state.

        9. Bill Steffen says:

          The only “poll” that counts is on Election Day. Many of the polls are of “registered” votes rather than “likely” voters, which are demonstrated to be more accurate. Second, many polls don’t just ask who you are voting for…they first ask if you are a Democrat, Republican or Independent. They they choose the % of each group to include in the poll. Some polls are weighted with far more Democrats than Republicans. One poll started with a group in Florida that was 14% more Democrat than Republican. That’s absurd…never in the past has there been that kind of a spread in a Presidential election in Florida. Republicans swept Florida in 2010. Obama won Florida by 2.8% in 2008. No one seriously thinks Obama has a +10% lead in Florida. A poll like that is a “push poll” designed to discourage Republicans, encourage Democrats and encourage those (lobbyists) who donate to campaigns to give to “the winner”.

          Rasmussen was the most accurate poll in 2008. http://www.fordham.edu/images/academics/graduate_schools/gsas/elections_and_campaign_/poll%20accuracy%20in%20the%202008%20presidential%20election.pdf Rasmussen has Obama nationally up 2%. Watch what the campaigns do, where they plan campaign stops and when they are spending money…they’re responding to the 2% margin.

        10. joanne says:

          LOL and wait until after the debates. Obama will eat Romney alive and the Right wing knows it. The best chance Romney will have is smile and continually answer a question that isn’t asked. For example:
          Question: Why won’t you make your tax records public?
          Romney: I think teachers should be paid based on how smart their students are.
          Question: What does that have to do with you hiding your tax records?
          Romney: Sure I believe in abortion, Uh, I mean I used to, but now I need to not, or something like that.
          Question: So you are saying that you are against abortion now?
          Romney: My grandfather was a polygamist.
          Question: Do you believe that Obama is right in not raising the middle classes taxes and asking the top wage earners to have a modest tax increase?
          Romney: I made a lot of money at Baine Capitol.
          Question: Where is your money now?
          Romney: I like Swedish chocolate :)

        11. big Daddy BC says:

          LOL :)

        12. Dan says:

          Will Obama have the teleprompter for the debate or he is going off script? Romney will eat his lunch. For starters, Obama said “Its a one term deal if the the stimulus does not work and unemployment does not go below 8%” He also said it was unpatriotic to raise taxes. Then, the debate could venture into Foreign Policy. What is your position on Egypt or Israel, Mr. Obama?

        13. big Daddy BC says:

          The stimulus did work, Dan. We’ve had this discussion. The stimulus is what stopped a depression. Did you happen to notice that the landslide stopped when the democrats took over?

          http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/business/us-unemployment-rate-history/

          Pay special attention to that first graph. It shows unemployment skyrocketing under Bush and declining immediately after Obama took office. Also have a look at Clinton and compare him to the republicans, Reagan and Bush I. Dems win every time. As Clinton said at the convention, not a single president in history could completely undo the damage done by GWB in the time Obama’s had, not even Clinton. If Mitt gets in there, he’ll take us back to the days of GWB. That’s bad for the country, bad for the middle class, but a boon for millionaires.

          Another graphic you should see is the history of debt vs. GDP. It shows a similar trend. Republicans are not good for the economy or employment. It’s black and white.

          http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/Federal_Debt_1901-2010.png

        14. Bill Steffen says:

          800 BILLION DOLLARS! What do we have to show for that? Unemployment is higher than when Obama took office. It’s higher for blacks, higher for Hispanics, higher for women. Where are the new schools? the new highways? the filled potholes? Where did the money go??

          Unemployment skyrocketed under Carter…Reagan fixed it, cutting unemployment in HALF. We should do what he did. We’re doing nothing now to reduce unemployment…NOTHING!

          http://the-american-catholic.com/2012/03/23/the-obama-record-the-debt/ (check the graph)

    2. Brad says:

      What is laughable but also dangerous is the marriage of Ayn Rand with the GOP brand of Christianity. Very few Christians know what Ayn Rand thought of their faith.

      1. Bill Steffen says:

        That’s nonsense. +95% of Christians don’t know who Ayn Rand was and 99.9% don’t have any connection between their faith and Ayn Rand. She was an atheist and that is not reconcilable with any faith.

        1. Brad says:

          Uh, Bill…do you know anything about your VP candidate or pseudo-Libertarian politics that dominate the Tea Party/GOP?

        2. Bill Steffen says:

          Do you even know anything about the Michigan Tea Party? Who’s in charge? Have you had any contact with them – been to their website – if they have one? I have not. You are a control freak, so you want a dictatorial government that chooses everything from the car you drive to the light bulb you use. The government is too often inefficient and sometimes an impediment to progress (note the Solyndra and LG Chem debacles).

        3. Brad says:

          LOL…so, back to Paul Ryan, Ayn Rand, and Catholicism for $100, Bill…

        4. big Daddy BC says:

          Let’s play, “DODGE THE QUESTION.” LOL

        5. Bill Steffen says:

          Here’s more on Ayn Rand – an eyewitness to the evil, freedom-destroying brutality of the Socialist State of Russia: http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_ayn_rand_aynrand_biography

          I think it’s time to see a movie: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/328768/hope-movies-michael-graham BTW the movie “2016 – Obama’s America” is still playing locally. So far, it’s at over $32 1/2 million, 4th biggest documentary ever. Here’s more: http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=main&id=2016obamasamerica.htm

        6. big Daddy BC says:

          http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=590_1224883454

          The woman was a stone cold atheist, which makes me wonder how people like Romney and Ryan can emulate her. I did read that Ryan used to give copies of her books out at Christmas until the Catholic Church told him to stop. But, again, this is a confusing year for republicans. Mitt did fundraisers at Planned Parenthood. He was pro gun control and had his own version of universal healthcare as governor. …All very progressive, liberal things. The evangelists are going to have to close their eyes and ask for God’s forgiveness when they vote in a month.

        7. Bill Steffen says:

          Look at how this guy was influenced positively by Ayn Rand: http://www.freep.com/article/20120521/COL06/205210376/Grand-Rapids-bar-owner-brews-success-with-a-passion-for-beer

          In other news…

          CO2 emissions falling in the U.S: http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2012/08/in-a-surprise-co2-emissions-hit-20-year-low/1#.UTf9IDeS-So

          “And global temperatures have been flat for a decade: The five-year mean global temperature has been flat for the last decade…” – James Hansen et al.

      2. Kimoeagle says:

        Have you bothered to read Ayn Rand? If so, then you will remember this quote in one of her interviews:
        “Definitions are the guardians of rationality, the first line of defense against the chaos of mental disintegration.”

        With that in mind. I suggest you deal less with euphemisms and more with “definitions”. And frankly,IMHO, I don’t think Ayn Rand was atheistic, despite her declarations. I believe that she was agnostic, with religion being an uncomfortable obstacle to her so-called free thinking about”…mans’s will…” and “self-interest”, etc., etc..
        BTW, I happened to spot some of the phrases that you and Joanne have been using in Lonnie Griesbaum’s column in Daily Kos. You might wish to give him literal credit, or someone might think that you would be guilty of plagiarism, hm? Just sayin…

        1. joanne says:

          That’s a lie

        2. big Daddy BC says:

          You read the Daily Kos? Brilliant. That’s very flattering. Would you mind giving an example for all the millions of viewers? Bet you can’t!! LOL

        3. Bill Steffen says:

          Read this: “The five-year mean global temperature has been flat for the last decade…” – James Hansen et al.

          Even Hansen admits that global temperature has been flat for a decade!

  14. DF (SE Mich) says:

    This is a cool interactive water levels tool:
    http://www.glerl.noaa.gov/data/now/wlevels/dbd/

    Up and down, down and up.

    1. Jim says:

      DF – a big thumbs UP for that link.

  15. Scott (west olive) says:

    Actually, the news is being too easy with this story. My wife worked there for about 5 months. This place is a joke and we should get our money back! They had them sign documents and back date them to get more money for training. Training for what? They been playing cards since Feb or before. Last I heard they are down to 42 people in that plant. So many people have left because of the mandatory lay offs. I bet as soon as elections are done the doors are locked. The Holland Sent. was contacted about this 4 months ago and they have done nothing with the story. Keeping it hush hush?

    1. Scott (west olive) says:

      Huh that was supposed to go way up top for a reply.

  16. Rocky (Rockford) says:

    What a bunch of radicals. The political divisions in this country are very destructive and very counter productive. Why don’t you people realize this?

    1. joanne says:

      I hear ya, especially when a weatherman misuses the media’s blog to push his political agenda.

        1. joanne says:

          NOBODY takes what Anthony Watts says seriously. Come up with a better source if you want people to take a look.

        2. Bill Steffen says:

          LOL! Sure they do. Even Michael Mann has noticed!

          “…flashy (apparently widely distributed)”
          - Michael E. Mann

          Blog Stats 141,700,760 views

          It’s won an award for Best Science Blog

          Check it out here: http://wattsupwiththat.com/

    2. big Daddy BC says:

      It’s funny that moderates are considered radicles these days. Well, maybe not funny. Sad, actually.

      1. Bill Steffen says:

        “radicles”? You’re a moderate like Milli Vanilli will be the comeback story of 2013.

        1. big Daddy BC says:

          Great example, Bill. LOL Very hip and new. ;)

        2. Bill Steffen says:

          You’re a moderate like Al Gore knows the temperature “2 kilometers down”: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMrxC-qEHb8

  17. Kimoeagle says:

    Look at the pot calling the kettle black.
    So far in this thread, I have seen nothing BUT ‘political agenda’ from you and your fellow liberal hacks.
    It is also obvious that you have not bothered to check the links that Bill AND others have put out there for you to consider. My dad used to call folks like that “opinionated”…. not willing to listen to an opposing or different view than their own. That’s sad. So narrow-minded that you cannot even discuss OR disagree. Instead,the phrases that you and big Daddy,etc. have been using, are echoes of flaming liberal fanatics. And when you’ve run out of those phrases, you start slandering people with personal put-downs. That is sad — and repulsive. It’s sad because you cannot seem to rise out of the slime to civilly discuss something, and repulsive because you have to resort to personal insults about someone that you don’t know. I pity your stunted outlook on life.

    1. Brad says:

      LOL. A guy whining about people “not willing to listen to an opposing or different view than their own”…and calling posters “liberal hacks.” Like, a crisis of consistency, or something.

  18. Wojo55 says:

    This blog is a joke. It is supposed to be about Great Lakes water levels not politics. The water levels of the Great Lakes are a very serious concern. One where we are ALL to blame for tampering with nature and it’s resources.

    The Great Lakes would all be much better off if mankind would just let them be the beautiful wonder they are. But mankind can not seem to get it. One day there will be a war over water just like every other thing in the natural world.

    Can any of you focus long enough to rationally discuss the actual topic? If you don’t have anything to add to the real topic than take your politics elsewhere. We should be discussing how to save our Great Lakes. PERIOD.

  19. joanne says:

    Kimoeagle,
    You should take your blinders off bud. Reread the blog and you will see how you and radicals like you are starting fights. Level headed Democrats are sick of your banter and sick of extremists like Bill Steffen misusing his position to push his right wing political agenda. All you folks do is call names and lie. If you want to have a real discussion, please post something worthy of discussing, rather than put downs such as “hacks, opinionated, sad, narrow-minded, flaming liberal fanatics, repulsive, and stunted outlook on life!!!!! Then please come back with your pity and accusations of how others only call names. That’s precious Kim. Hypocrite much?
    In other news, Romney is being tied to more and more allegations of tax evasion
    http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/08/opinion/canellos-kleinbard-romney-taxes/index.html

    And if Bill tells people that are proving him wrong “That’s Nonsense” one more time, I’m going to get sick. Just because you call logic nonsense, proofs nothing Bill.

    1. Jim says:

      joanne says: “love the fact that Republicans always blame the congress…”

      “Level headed Democrats are sick of your banter and sick of extremists like Bill Steffen.”

      “All you folks do is call names and lie.”

      “Hypocrite much?”

      In other news, Lake levels are presently relatively low. Care to comment?

      1. joanne says:

        Thanks for your input Jim, or should I say my paraphrased quoted input.
        In other news, Bill has said utter nonsense 723 times in the last week!
        ;)

        1. Jim says:

          I did not paraphrase your words. Copy and paste, so those are your exact words.

          More of your exact words: “Come on Bill, that’s absurd hyperbole and you know it.”

          “Bill has said utter nonsense 723 times in the last week!”

        2. joanne says:

          Jim Jim Jim, I feel sorry for you. You must have a sad life to only be able to paraphrase my quoted input.

        3. Bill Steffen says:

          And it’s sad that you would defame the good people at Lakeshore Auto. Can’t you be honest?

      2. Kimoeagle says:

        Hi Jim,
        I am surprised that lake levels are not lower than they are. However, the UP did not seem to do too badly in receiving precip this summer (vs. the lower Lakes area.)
        BTW, it appears that certain people get annoyed when they hear their own words being repeated. Hm. Keep it up, Jim!!!!!!!!! LOL. LOL. LOL.:-)

        1. joanne says:

          Kim says

          ” am surprised that lake levels are not lower than they are. However, the UP did not seem to do too badly in receiving precip this summer (vs. the lower Lakes area.)
          BTW, it appears that certain people get annoyed when they hear their own words being repeated. Hm. Keep it up, Jim!!!!!!!!! LOL. LOL. LOL.:-)”

          See how stupid it is? Keep it up though. If you thing it’s irritating than I am all for it. ;)
          BTW Kim, it looks like you got one of those Bill Steffen 1970 porn mustaches.

        2. joanne says:

          Kilo Digler

        3. Dan says:

          If Obama is reelected will his administration buy me a cell phone? How about a car? Maybe a home?
          What is extremely sad and frightening is that he was NOT even aware of what really happened to US Ambassador, Craig Stevens. Well, he claims he didn’t know. Hence, blaming the release of the video that caused a riot. There are huge issues at stake here regarding National safety. I don’t think it makes much sense to be contributing millions to the Muslim Brotherhood!

        4. big Daddy BC says:

          The Muslim Brotherhood is a part of almost every government in the middle east. That’s like saying I don’t want to contribute to those dark haired guys over there. …Or is that what you meant?

        5. Dan says:

          Big Daddy: Do I really have to explain to you what I meant by Muslim Brotherhood? I’m talking about terrorism. Look it up!
          The Muslim Brotherhood have been tied time and again to terrorism. My point was, Obama has attempted yet another cover up with this US Ambassador killing. Do you really think it is because of a movie release? Do the math. It is not that complicated. Point is, Four Americans, including the Ambassador, lost their lives in what appears to be a terrorist attack. Rather than accept the responsibility, the Obama administration has attempted to cover it up, stonewall and blame others.

        6. big Daddy BC says:

          You obviously don’t realize who the Muslim Brotherhood is or how far reaching their reach is. Point is, you cannot intervene in any middle eastern country without having to interact with them. They aren’t just a couple dudes in Egypt is my point.

          Obama hasn’t covered anything up, Daniel. Give us some examples. How about a link to a credible source? You’re problem is that you heard some guy on talk radio burp that crap up and you just blindly believed it. Do like the big boys and offer some evidence to support your claim.
          http://www.ikhwanweb.com/

        7. Dan says:

          You cannot be serious, Big Daddy. Every time, I have posted a link or a credible source in previous posts, you have not accepted them. Not listening to just some guy. He happens to be Obama. Listen to his comments about the situation that I was referencing. What did he say? I don’t have to be told what people say, do you have to have it interpreted

        8. big Daddy BC says:

          Dan, that reads like gibberish. I’m not sure what you’re asking.

        9. Dan says:

          Big Daddy: Plain and simple. Every time, and that is more than two or three times, I have posted links and sources for information. You do not accept them. So, why should I post them? It is an exercise in futility!
          I was also replying to your comment about listening to some guy and believing what he says. Do you not read and pay attention to what you post?
          My point was, I was listening to Obama’s comments about the killing of the Ambassador. Obama’s comments. Are you telling me that I should not listen and believe what he is saying about that situation?
          I’m not always sure that you read your posts. You ask questions that you have already asked. You alright?

        10. big Daddy BC says:

          I appreciate that you’re listening to the president and not clips on FOX NEWS. By all means, listen to him. My question is what exactly he said and why you think it indicates that he’s covering something up, that’s all. Provide a link so that we don’t all think you’re just fabricating it otherwise it’s just hot air.

        11. Bill Steffen says:

          Here’s a President you should be listening to: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEdXrfIMdiU and you should be listening to Ronald Reagan. This is from YOUR LINK: “Unemployment fell from a high of 10.8 percent to 5.3 percent under Reagan.” Unemployment now is higher than when Obama took office and nothing we are doing now is going to bring that down.

  20. Dan says:

    Lets see, Obama”s campaign slogan from 2008 was “Hope an Change” I wonder if he has considered this for his 2012 slogan, “Dreams of my Father, Nightmares for our Children”

    1. big Daddy BC says:

      Are you nuts? That would be a perfect slogan for GWB. He even invaded Iraq for his father. How many children died in that holy war? Weapons of mass destruction my asterisk.

      Obama’s slogan wasn’t ‘hope an change’, numbskull. It was ‘hope and change’. And he certainly did institute a nubmer of positive changes. He stopped a depression and hired more people in 2010 than Bush did in eight years. He killed the most wanted man in the world and overturned the Kadafi regime in mere weeks. He rescued GM from bankruptcy and stopped the big banks in their tracks. Have a look at these two graphics. They show the history of two things: debt to GDP and unemployment. These numbers don’t lie the way FOX News, Rush Limbaugh, and Bill Steffen do. They’re undeniable. Putting another republican in charge will only take us back to the days of GWB. We need to move forward, Dan.

      http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/business/us-unemployment-rate-history/

      http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/Federal_Debt_1901-2010.png

    2. joanne says:

      Dan, you are a very SAD person who doesn’t understand how to debate. I feel sorry for you. What a SAD life you must have to come on here with your nonsense to start fights with people who obviously are trying to help people like you. You lie about slogans and make up statistics. You provide nothing credible with a complete lack of understanding of any subject that you attempt to chime into. Why don’t you try adding something worthy of reading to the blog or just sit back and read like the majority of people.

      1. Paul says:

        Dan doesn’t know how to debate and you do??? You’re a freakin idiot joanne! LOL

        bdbc = joanne, brad, snowytwat, etc…

        1. big Daddy BC says:

          It’s interesting how the bigot racist (Paul) doesn’t generally show up with his crude comments until a thread’s been buried a while. Makes me wonder why unless it’s because the number of hits goes down, the coast is clear, so it’s now okay to sick the redneck avatar on whomever. You WOOD guys sure are clever.

        2. Bill Steffen says:

          Speaking of racist…did you see what the racist union thugs did to poor Clint Tarver, the African-American hot dog vendor: http://dailycaller.com/2012/12/13/clint-tarver-lansings-hot-dog-guy-describes-union-goons-destroying-his-property-and-calling-him-racial-epithets/

    3. Dan says:

      Look at that, hooked Big Daddy and his friend joanne. Worked like a charm!
      Funny thing about it, I invested about 15 seconds to get you both coming to the aid of Obama, to SAVE the blog. Here comes Big Daddy and joanne riding on on their left wing theology, hope AND change philosophy and name calling tactics. You are way too predictable.
      How about this campaign slogan for the anointed one, Obama. “Heading to the cliff”
      Look at joanne jumping in my comments when in a previous post she stated very clearly that it wasn’t worth her time to do so. How come “Joanne” is now “joanne?”
      Seriously, joanne where is your evidence? I’m not talking about piggy backing off of Big Daddy’s comments. How about your own evidence? Minus the old, worn out left wing talking points? By now, you must certainly realize how this make you look. Maybe not? We will save that for another day?
      Define sad life? Is it one who chooses to spend all of their time on a weather blog in futile to attempt to force feed their opinion?
      Your comments are ALMOST laughable. The issue is that you believe them!

      1. big Daddy BC says:

        You’re no Christian, Dan.

        1. Dan says:

          You are not my judge, Big Daddy.
          The one who truly knows, already has this all figured out!

        2. Paul says:

          Of course it takes a anti-Semitic dumb ass like bdbc to determine if a person is a Christian, LOL…

        3. big Daddy BC says:

          Oh, hey, here he is again. I wonder it he’s really Craig James.

      2. joanne says:

        Damn are you a dummy Dan. Have you ever heard of sarcasm? It’s a little thing that people do to make fun of others like you. You, however, are not capable of understanding it. My “sad” comments are a direct result of your history of doing that to everyone that disagrees with Bill. DERRR!
        Also, who cares if I capitalize my name or not Sherlock? If you capitalize a few more words, people may take you seriously. LMFAO. Thanks for the giggles Dan

        1. Dan says:

          Yes! However, can’t this work both ways, Jjoanne? Think about it!

        2. Paul says:

          Hey joanne, how is that pesky 21st chromosome doing?? You dumb ass!!!

        3. big Daddy BC says:

          A long time ago Bill tried to convince me that ‘Paul’ was a U of M graduate with a law degree, a practicing attorney, no less! LOL Last winter ‘Paul’ pretended to fly to Borneo for a few months. How fun it must be to make up people like this. I mean it takes a lot of creativity to come up with an illiterate, racist, bigoted, sexist, independently wealthy, attorney. You guys should win an award for that one.

          Now Dan I believe is real. No one could make him up. :)

        4. Paul says:

          You sure can make up a crossdressing anti-Semite moron like yourself bdbc…LOL!

          By the way Stupid (bdbc), do you believe the September 11th attacks were manufactured by Bush?

        5. big Daddy BC says:

          Are you likening the construction of your elaborate albeit revolting personality to a twin tower coverup? Don’t get carried away, WOOD. Inventing a hillbilly is a little bit easier than perpetrating the largest domestic attack the US has ever seen. Why, do you think it was a coverup?

        6. Paul says:

          Stupid fudgepacker (bdbc)…

        7. big Daddy BC says:

          Your sister doesn’t complain.

  21. joanne says:

    BILL Says:
    “Since the Democrats had two years with a 60-vote majority in the Senate and an overwhelming majority in the House – they could have passed anything they wanted. The blame or credit lies solely with them. ”

    Then Bill Says:
    The tax cut worked…unemployment went down…this is the same plan Reagan implemented and unemployment went down by HALF”
    So who gets the blame and who gets the credit Bill? You pick and choose what helps to make your case, but in the same blog post, you contradict yourself like a child over and over again. LOL

    1. Bill Steffen says:

      Those are perfectly valid comments and you’ve done nothing to diminish their validity. Obama and the Democrats could have passed anything they wanted in the first two years. What did they do…they created an 800 BILLION dollar stimulus…which was basically a pork bill for their crony friends. 800 BILLION DOLLARS!!! Where are the new schools? Where are the new roads? Where did all that money go? Unemployment is higher today than when Obama took office and nothing we are doing now is going to bring that down.

      Tax cuts have worked twice in the last 60 years. Under Ronald Reagan in 1981: http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNU04000000?years_option=all_years&periods_option=specific_periods&periods=Annual+Data

      and when John Kennedy was President: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEdXrfIMdiU (please look at the link)

  22. mart (gr) says:

    sciencedamn this thread is so messed up. Bill, just stop responding to the political trolls. how about a separate blog for that, and if anyone posts non weather in here just move it over to the other.

    1. big Daddy BC says:

      mart? Where’d this yo-yo come from? mart is another intern. I guarantee it. Besides, Bill isn’t responding, we are.

      1. Bill Steffen says:

        Then respond to this:

        Professor Judith Curry, who is the head of the climate science department at America’s prestigious Georgia Tech university, told The Mail on Sunday that it was clear that the computer models used to predict future warming were ‘deeply flawed’.

        Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2217286/Global-warming-stopped-16-years-ago-reveals-Met-Office-report-quietly-released–chart-prove-it.html#ixzz2MpUljVbw
        Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

        and this:

        “The five-year mean global temperature has been flat for the last decade…” – James Hansen et al. http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs_v3/Fig.C.gif

  23. SJWalker (Walker) says:

    Lets see it now clouldy and 59° for today

    1. Bill Steffen says:

      The high was 64 today in G.R.

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