Ice Increasing at Both Poles

September 24th, 2013 at 12:57 pm by under Bill's Blog, News, Weather

antarctic ice  antarctic ice 2  arctic ice  canadian western arctic iceClick on the graphics to enlarge. The Antarctic icecap reached a record greatest extent on Saturday (records since the satellite data began in 1979), reaching 19.51 million square kilometers (12.12 million sq. mi.).  Jinlun Zhang, the University of Washington scientist (PIOMAS) who studies Antarctic ice said, “Why would sea ice be increasing…it is a puzzle to scientists.”  See the graph on the left, showing that the South Polar icecap is now more than 2 standard deviations above the historic average and the icecap has grown since last year at this time.  The 2nd graph shows the steady growth of the Antarctic icecap since the mid 1980s.  It’s not “seasonal ice” in Antarctica – you can see the ice has been growing for 25 years (100+ seasons).   The 3rd graph shows the dramatic increase in Arctic ice extent in the last year.  The area of the icecap is 60% bigger than it was one year ago, the biggest year-to-year increase ever observed in the historic record.  While the Arctic icecap remains below average, the icecap is now well within two standard deviations of average.  The graphic on the right is ice extent in the western Arctic.  The extent is greater than 1981, 1982,  1987, 1993, 1995 and you can see the BIG increase in the last year.  Related, 2013 update on polar bears and “global warming” from NPR.  It’s debatable whether even  a single polar bear has been proven to have perished from “global warming”.  However, hundreds of thousands of large animals have been dying from extreme cold and snow:  Kashmir sheep/goats, 250,000 alpacas, 70,000 animals in Bolivia, manatees in Florida in 2o10.   Also of note, the solar cycle has peaked with a very low number of sunspots (lowest in at least 100 years).  This was forecast well by Dr. Leif Svalgaard (note his comment at the first link).

65 Responses to “Ice Increasing at Both Poles”

  1. Rocky (Rockford) says:

    Keep up the good work Bill. This is great information however I am sure that people like Travis will say the increased ice is due to global warming! LOL

  2. Rocky (Rockford) says:

    It looks like another day of sunshine and below average temperatures. Enjoy people!

    1. Rodey (Rockford) says:

      Looks like above average temps for the rest of the week with a lot of sunshine. I love it. Fantastic.

      1. Rocky (Rockford) says:

        fixxxer = brain dead!

        1. Rodey (Rockford) says:

          rocky=pinhead. Fantastic. Thanks for listening. I love it.

  3. GunLakeDeb says:

    I found this article: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2415191/Global-cooling-Arctic-ice-caps-grows-60-global-warming-predictions.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490 in response to a Facebook rebuttal against Bill’s post. The article, if you read far enough, says that the UN is in “crisis mode” because they need to make 1500 changes to their latest “Climate Report” due to be published this October. Um, the one that predicted back in ’07 that ALL Arctic Ice would be gone by 2013 ;-)

    “Mother Nature Always Gets The Last Laugh”

    1. GunLakeDeb says:

      I found the article while trying to find the story I *just* read about a bunch of ships getting trapped in the sea ice in the Northwest Passage. A funny comment in the article mentions maybe the ships’ captains were believing the 2007 report….

    2. Rocky (Rockford) says:

      +1

  4. Irish coffee says:

    The Gulf of Mexico AND HADES could freeze over…AGW zealots would still be clamoring for families of 8 to buy Prius’ ;)

  5. Paul says:

    So when does “Bill’s Blog” resident cross dresser (bdbc) show up?

  6. DF (SE Mich) says:

    Wow! I wonder if the southern records will just keep coming or stop sometime…

  7. Travis (Oakland County) says:

    Wow, I don’t think I have ever read a more blatant disregard of the long-term facts or a more skewing of the data. Here are the facts that Bill seems to conveniently leave out in case anyone is interested in the real long-term story:

    Arctic:

    1. The arctic sea ice continues to be in a significant long-term decline since the first comprehensive satellite records began in 1979. Ice volume has fallen from 16,855 km^3 all the way down to 3,261 km^3 in 2012.

    2. 2012 was the all-time lowest amount of Arctic sea ice volume ever recorded. More than 3 standard deviations below the long-term average.

    3. Summer 2013 data just came in, and the Arctic sea ice just recorded its 6th lowest ice volume amount for that time of year (what is called the ‘ice minimum’). Still more than 2 standard deviations away from the long-term average. Talking in Michigan terms, it’s as if Grand Rapids hit 130 degrees in 2012. But this year, it only hit 125 degrees. To Bill, I guess that means it’s getting cooler. To everyone else, it means we are still well outside of long-term averages.

    Antarctic:

    1. Global sea temperatures have risen dramatically the past century. The temperatures at the poles of the antarctic have also risen.

    2. So if the water is warmer and the air is warmer, why is more ice forming? Obviously, there is more at play here. Simply put, the center of antarctic has stayed fairly constant in the temperature department while the poles have warmed in temperature. This greater temperature contrast over the continent has caused higher measured wind in antarctic – many peer reviewed scholarly studies conclude this.

    3. This increase in wind (especially at the ends of the continent) is causing more shallow sea ice to form as the higher winds push out further into the warmer but still very cold water.

    4. The far more significant ice sheets (where the majority of the ice in the antarctic is) are not expanding. They are retreating. This is easily seen from a newly published study after uncovering spy satellite photos of the antarctic going back to 1963.

    5. As I have said time and time again, ice coverage is not the most important thing to look at when it comes to glaciology. Ice volume is. Does it really matter if shallow sea ice is forming on top of the water due to higher winds when the massive interior ice shelves are in retreat?

      1. DSchu says:

        WOW! Travis, you are such an idiot!

        1. Jordan (Twin Lake) says:

          Good contribution, dickhead.

    1. Bill Steffen says:

      The downward trend in the Arctic has come to a crashing halt this year, as the graph on the left clearly shows. There’s MORE ice than when Al Gore said five years ago that “the icecap will be gone in five years!” And there’s more ice at BOTH poles. We had a maximum ice extent in the Arctic after the coldest 3 winters in a row that we have ever had. In 1976-77, Grand Rapids had the coldest winter we have had in the last 100 years. In 1977-78 we had the famous Blizzard of ’78 (http://blogs.woodtv.com/2013/01/26/the-blizzard-of-1978/). After the Blizzard (on Jan. 26) we had the coldest February and the 5th coldest March ever in G.R. Then in the frigid winter of 1978-1979, the Great Lakes pretty much froze over solid (http://blogs.woodtv.com/files/2011/02/lake-michigan-ice-cover-1979.gif). In 1979 when the satellite era icecap data begins, we were more than likely at a relative maximum for Arctic ice rather than an average.

      Global sea temperatures all around the Antarctic are COLDER THAN AVERAGE. LOOK: http://www.ospo.noaa.gov/data/sst/anomaly/2013/anomnight.9.23.2013.gif

      The temperature at the S. Pole has been getting COLDER: http://www.john-daly.com/stations/amundsen.gif

      more later…doing the news now.

      1. Travis (Oakland County) says:

        I think the Telegraph put it best in this article and long-term graph of the Actic sea ice:

        ‘You genuinely have to be an idiot to think that Arctic sea ice is recovering’

        http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tomchiversscience/100237031/you-genuinely-have-to-be-an-idiot-to-think-that-arctic-sea-ice-is-recovering/

        http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/files/2013/09/sea-ice-large.jpg

        1. Bill Steffen says:

          Your first link is an article written by a self-described “assistant comment editor”. Your second link is from PIOMAS and it’s old. In my thread above, I QUOTE Jinlun Zhang of PIOMAS who said recently, “Why would sea ice be increasing…it is a puzzle to scientists.”

          He’s “puzzled” and asking “why”. Why are the climate models failing so badly: http://www.climatedialogue.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Figure-2-Pielke.jpg

        2. Travis (Oakland County) says:

          Puzzled would be the scientists you listen to who have gotten the entire trend wrong from the 1970′s. Talk about egg on their face. Many said we were entering a new ice age. Oops!

          I never claimed any models were right. No one can accurately predict mother nature in the short-term.

      2. Brad says:

        Bill, you are a passionate Right-winger, a fervent acolyte of Ayn Rand, and a dedicated member of the John Birch Society. While your political piety could be championed by members of the cause, it places you in the same ideological realm as the Marxists you so resolutely detest.

        1. Paul says:

          Brad, those are awful big words for ya little fella. Now go back to molesting your pine tree, lol.

        2. Jordan (Twin Lake) says:

          My neighbor’s dog molested Paul’s mouth!

      3. ~Sandy~ from DeWitt/Clinton County says:

        Thanks for the facts, Bill. You always give great data!

    2. Brad says:

      Thanks Travis. Bill Steffen is too enmeshed, too fervent, in his ideological biases to present a fair and balanced argument.

      1. Bill Steffen says:

        You can call me all the names you like, Brad – pretty weak response, just name calling. The facts are presented above. They interfere with your political agenda, so you respond with insults.

        Remember the Climategate email from Kevin Trenberth that said: “The fact is that we can’t account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can’t.” Not only could he not account for the lack of warming…but, he thought it was a travesty that the warming had stopped (and it has stopped…global temperatures have been flat for over 10 years: http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs_v3/Fig.C.gif) It’s a travesty because it might curtail the money flow…the millions in grant money and the green energy boondoggles (http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-09-18/news/ct-met-kass-0918-20110918_1_solyndra-loan-guarantee-obama-fundraisers-obama-white-house and http://www.woodtv.com/news/target-8/volt-no-jolt-lg-chem-employees-idle).

      2. Travis (Oakland County) says:

        Not sure what politics or Al Gore or what winters in the 1970′s in Grand Rapids or the current sea temps at this very moment in time have to do with long-term planetary trends in accordance to polar ice?

        He sure gets wound up. You can’t even have a sensible debate. You can just feel all this pent up political hate come out when you present the facts of a peer reviewed long-term chart.

        Oh well. Not going to waste any more of my time on this silly debate that’s already been settled.

        Find me in 20 years, Bill. You have my e-mail. Beer’s on you if the current trends continue and the climatologists are right.

        1. Bill Steffen says:

          Here’s a long term trend for ya: http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/seaice.anomaly.antarctic.png +25 years of growing ice. and cooling temps. in the Arctic: http://www.john-daly.com/stations/amundsen.gif and colder than average water all around the Antarctic continent: http://www.ospo.noaa.gov/data/sst/anomaly/2013/anomnight.9.23.2013.gif

          It’s sure not what you climate profiteers expected: http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/snowfalls-are-now-just-a-thing-of-the-past-724017.html Add to that the climate models are failing badly (http://www.climatedialogue.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Figure-2-Pielke.jpg)…”deeply flawed” as Dr. Judith Curry has said.

          The long-term trend is that global temperatures have been flat for over 10 years. That’s the trend…no trend: http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs_v3/Fig.C.gif

          “The five-year mean global temperature has been flat for the last decade…” – James Hansen et al.

        2. ~Sandy~ from DeWitt/Clinton County says:

          Eh – I am still waiting for the Ice Age that was predicted in Time Magazine in 1977….oh, and sorry, while the world MIGHT be Millions of years old – most of that time it was void and without form.

        3. Brad says:

          The earth is several billion years old, Sandy.

      3. michael g (SE GR) says:

        When you can’t explain all that ice, go for personal attacks.

      4. DSchu says:

        Brad, Bill’s facts are just that, facts. You are entitled to you own opinions – not your own facts. In real science ideology and politics are not welcome. A political opinion will not change reality. 2 + 2 = 4, not 5. And reiterating a tired old liberal mantra will never change that.

      5. Brad says:

        This isn’t name-calling, Bill. This is just recognition of your faith, of your passionate, facts-be-damned belief system.

        1. Bill Steffen says:

          Sure it’s name-calling. Faith has nothing to do with this post and you have not even attempted to disprove anything in the post.

        2. Brad says:

          Sure it does- you are not open to facts that do not fit your belief system.

        3. Bill Steffen says:

          You guys are the closed-minded regressives. You still haven’t even tried to disprove anything I said in my post above.

          Global temperatures are steady: http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs_v3/Fig.C.gif and have been for over 10 years.

          The climate models are failing badly (“deeply flawed” as Dr. Judith Curry has stated): http://www.climatedialogue.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Figure-2-Pielke.jpg

          C02 emissions in the U.S. are falling: http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/08/17/a-20-year-low-in-u-s-carbon-emissions/?_r=0

          The ClimateGate emails revealed the shenanigans of the very small politically-driven group that was spinning the alarmism: “The fact is that we can’t account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can’t.” http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100119442/climategate-2-0-the-most-damning-email-of-them-all/

          Dave the biologist had it write when he wrote in the New York Times:

          ““I also have to agree with Jim West. My firm ‘belief’ in AGW had already been undermined by some extremely bad papers about mosquitoes, arthropod borne disease, and the effect a warmer Earth on wildlife (I am a biologist). But, I assumed these were just opportunists jumping on the gravy train and that the problem was with the journal review process, not AGW.

          But the Climategate emails made it all too clear that there was no science at all in ALL these famous papers in Nature and other ‘prestige’ journals. Rather, all the sound and fury appeared to be generated by an unscrupulous cabal eager for grant money, fame, and lots of CO2 generating trips to warm and pleasant spots where they could regurgitate their story to a corrupted press and conniving politicians.

          As far as I can tell now, many of the assumptions of AGW appear to be false, nothing that one reads on climate change from Nature to Drudge is reliable.”

        4. Brad says:

          I have countered the falsehoods time and time again. You approach climate change with the classic “kitchen sink” approach. Anything goes regardless of its veracity. Remember when you were trumpeting the “skewed polls” before the 2012 election? Anyone with a smidgen of credibility knew that argument was nuts.

        5. Bill Steffen says:

          You can’t refute data and facts Brad. I presented some in this thread and in my comment above this one. You have not presented a single shred of evidence to challenge it.

          Global temperatures have been steady since 2002, the icecaps are growing at both poles, the sun is unusually quiet, hundreds of animals are dying from cold and not a single indisputable polar bear death from “global warming”, we’re having a near-record dull year for hurricanes, we’re having a near record low number of tornadoes, the number of wildfires this year has been the lowest in over 10 years and the Great Lakes have seen a significant rise in water levels. Tough year for climate profiteers.

        6. Brad says:

          LOL, you are actually citing the seasonal growth of the Arctic ice cap? The same ice cap that is nearly two standard deviations below average?

        7. Brad says:

          Fact: humans are primates.

        8. Bill Steffen says:

          Sure, there is a lot of new ice in the Arctic – but that’s not what you guys predicted. Al Gore said “the icecap will be gone in five years”. Five years are up and there is MORE ice there than there was five years ago.

          The South Polar icecap is MORE than two standard deviations ABOVE average.

        9. Brad says:

          So a few people becomes “you guys.” And why is the Antarctic ice cap growing? You never discuss the possible mechanisms.

        10. Bill Steffen says:

          The ice in the Antarctic is growing because it’s getting colder! http://www.john-daly.com/stations/amundsen.gif

          The sea water all around Antarctic today is colder than average! http://www.ospo.noaa.gov/data/sst/anomaly/2013/anomnight.9.23.2013.gif

        11. Travis (Oakland County) says:

          Hmmm… I don’t recall you ever mentioning the all-time low in the arctic ice last year. If this truly isn’t a biased blog, then you should at the very least present the data, regardless.

          This year, the arctic is still at the 6th lowest level ever recorded, and yet you post about the supposed “recovery” every other thread.

          And I still don’t get why you’re so obsessed with shallow sea ice in the antarctic and completely overlook the fact that the massively more important ice shelf is retreating.

          Studies after studies have shown the the air temperature as well as the ocean temperature are getting warmer around the edges. The same spots where arctic sea ice is on the rise. Obviously, more is going on here, and you’re missing the bigger picture when you simply just look at shallow ice coverage.

          Here’s a 26-year plot from NOAA:

          http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=8239

        12. Irish coffee says:

          Too many “primates” here espouse trust(faith) in incomplete data, specious claims, and guesswork relating to future trends based on imprecise climate models.That said, some go as far as to ridicule ‘Creation’(a planned, purposeful,and organized structure of divine order)…instead holding fast to a belief in random chance, and chaotic “theories” lacking logic, reason and/or substantive proof & credible evidence supporting human development(“evolution”)from a lower non-human sub-species.Our “consciousness of existence” is not some chance encounter of matter + basic elements meeting up via perfect timing and selective evolution over time, sans intent & Masterful design.No witnesses, no observation of such occurence and certainly NO scientific reproduction of said theory exists(even W/ AID of advanced technology/high IQ— but nature could easily manufacture such complex life all on it’s own, right?)Such theories are weighted heavily on conjecture and SPECULATION…hardly HARD science; but yet let a Christian claim Faith in a Creator )(God) and all heck breaks loose via hypocritical intellectual dishonesty!

  8. Dan says:

    Travis: You may disagree with Bill, that is fine. However, you have no right to bash him and be condescending when you will not even take the time to look at and consider your comments! Your data is skewed! Bill has been pointing this out to you time and time again! You owe Bill an apology. However, you probably will not ever offer him one. This entire post was probably wasted on you! PLEASE consider all the facts BEFORE you go slamming people. You have no right! Brad: Please don’t respond for Travis unless its constructive. I do believe there are some blades of grass that need to be studied for the existence of humans!

    1. Travis (Oakland County) says:

      No bashing. Very cordial. I hope you hold RJ, Indy, Yooper, and many others on here to your same standard. We’ll see.

      1. Paul says:

        Travis, go f__K yourself.

        1. DSchu says:

          Here! Here! However Travis may need an outdated, biased scientific study (with instructions) on how to do so!

        2. Travis (Oakland County) says:

          LOL Thanks for my proving my point! Classy

      2. michael g (SE GR) says:

        So you were feeling cordial when you indirectly called him an idiot?

        1. Travis (Oakland County) says:

          LOL I believe it was Bill who called us union thugs and brainless on the prior thread. And you who have called people even worse on here from time to time.

          Not buying your holier than thou attitude you are suddenly trying to sell, sorry. I never name called, kept it G rating, and even offered Bill a beer if I’m wrong.

  9. Dan says:

    Marxist? Really? What proof do you have? crickets…..

  10. Rocky (Rockford) says:

    Travis get a life – you are a sorry excuse of a human being!

    1. Rodey (Rockford) says:

      At least he is human. More than can be said about you. Fantastic. I love it.

      1. Rocky (Rockford) says:

        Thanks for the compliment and thanks for listening!

        1. Rodey (Rockford) says:

          Only a true pinhead would think that’s a compliment. Fantastic. I love it. Thanks for listening. Get used to it.

  11. Rocky (Rockford) says:

    We are having some very nice Fall weather. Enjoy it while you can because when winter hits we will be getting hammered. Rock n Roll will never die!

  12. Jack says:

    For what it’s WORTH !!! Anybody Read THIS !!! Mexico’s Calderón Leads Study On Economic Benefits Of Climate Change
    Published September 24, 2013Fox News Latino

    An Indian wearing a traditional headdress at a protest in Brasilia, Brazil, by various Indian communities in defense of the Guarani-Kaiowa tribe who are involved in a land dispute. (AP)
    A new global initiative wants to present a more persuasive argument for action on climate change by focusing on the economic benefits of doing so.

    The Global Commission on the Economy and Climate, chaired by former Mexican President Felipe Calderon, is launching a year-long study to analyze the economic costs and benefits of acting against climate change. 

    The results of the study, which will be undertaken by research institutes on five continents, will be released in September 2014.

    “The world faces two great challenges: to fight poverty and to fight global warming,” Norway’s Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg said at the launch of the initiative on the sidelines of the U.N. General Assembly. “We cannot choose between them.”

    Calderon said a strong argument that fighting climate change will lead to economic growth could persuade more governments and companies to take part. “All this time, we have talked about emissions,” Calderon said. “But this time, we will try to talk about profits. That could change the equation.”

  13. Cliff(Scotts) says:

    Anyone else notice the moon coming up out of the east. It looks amazing!!!

  14. Mike M. says:

    How about those Tigers?? Yeah!!

  15. renie says:

    Well late on commenting but I am on team Bill and will stand with him and his solid facts and make sure I am prepared for the cold as opposed to the way too crazy libbers who do not ever “think”! These liberals act on “feel” and not on facts or brain power!!! When the correct facts do not line up with their “feelings” and their feelers get hurt these liberals start to call names and act out,hold their breath and go out and buy poster paper and sticks and find others who will do same and then go out in the “FREEZING COLD” AND PROTEST GLOBAL WARMING!! Travis and Brad let your “feelings” go for lets say an hour and open your closed liberal minds and just possibly “THINK” AND LOOK AT NEW SATILLITE MAPS OF 2013 ICE AND SNOW ON BOTH ICE CAPS AND TEMP CHARTS. LOOK AT FACTS NOT AT OLD INFORMATION OR TAINTED INFORMATION.

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